Same Sex Marriage is Mass.. how do you feel about it?

Original post by Xelindrya

May 18, 2004 09:08 AM

So How do you feel?

Im curious how 'we' here feel about it in general. Seeing as we are all getting married or are married. Admittedly our views are a bit skewed to the 'happily ever after'.

Then again, not everyone can have the same cookie cutter view of this but it's difficult to express that in a post without fear of being battered over it. So I created what I hope is a broad based poll.

If you view, please choose. Even if it's 'other'.

BMD'sPeanut Posted: May 19, 2004 04:49 PM

Re: Same Sex Marriage is Mass.. how do you feel about it?

Posted by shelly3950

There is definitely preference for wealthy celebrities when it comes to adoption (which isn't right IMO).

What does that mean?

Which part is not right? The fact that there is a preference for white newborns or the fact that only the wealthy can get them?

shelly3950 Posted: May 19, 2004 04:50 PM

Re: Same Sex Marriage is Mass.. how do you feel about it?

Will- who among us has a will? Most people don't until their 40's and 50's?

Besides, wills and health care proxies can't determine who gets to make your medical decisions. These only determine your wishes. If you are critical you can put whatever you want in a health care proxy but if a loved one who is not allowed to visit according to hospital procedure will not be able to visit. And no health care proxy can defer decision rights to a partner. That is hospital policy. But spouses are always given those rights. Even if they abandoned the spouse years ago.

heidla Posted: May 19, 2004 04:50 PM

Re: Same Sex Marriage is Mass.. how do you feel about it?

Posted by don424

This is incorrect.

If your wife, God forbid, falls terminally ill, you as her husband have the right to say what kind of medical treatment she receives, you have the right to live in your shared home as her husband if she should be incapacited, as well as a host of other rights that we, as heterosexuals take for granted.

Homosexuals do not have these rights as domestic partners or otherwise. In the same situation they can be tossed out of their homes, forbidden access to their significant other in the hospital, unable to make decisions on behalf of their loved one...all because they don't have that 'little piece of paper.'

ever hear of a will?

Ever heard of a will being contested? Unfortunately, in alot of cases the family contests the will and wins because they are the biological relative.

kel2004 Posted: May 19, 2004 04:50 PM

Re: Same Sex Marriage is Mass.. how do you feel about it?

Posted by don424

there are wills, power of attorney, beneficiary statements

all sorts of stuff

Exactly. How is anyone being oppressed here? But apparently this compares to being killed in the holocaust...

Kriss2c Posted: May 19, 2004 04:50 PM

Re: Same Sex Marriage is Mass.. how do you feel about it?

Posted by kel2004

[When my fiance proposed, he didn't say 'Let's get married so you can have my property when I die and visit me in the hospital when I'm sick.' These are not reasons to get married. And gay people can do this through legal means anyway.

Here is a hypothetical situation that was actually portrayed in the HBO flick, If these walls could talk 2:

An elderly gay couple live together, suddenly one has an accident and is in a vegitative state in the hospital... this one has already voiced her wishes to her partner that wants to be kept alive by any means. Well the sick partner's family learns of the accident and after time decides to pull the plug, as legal next of kin.... the family's decision is what comes to be. With a marriage certificate this could have been prevented.

kel2004 Posted: May 19, 2004 04:50 PM

Re: Same Sex Marriage is Mass.. how do you feel about it?

Posted by Kriss2c

Posted by kel2004

[When my fiance proposed, he didn't say 'Let's get married so you can have my property when I die and visit me in the hospital when I'm sick.' These are not reasons to get married. And gay people can do this through legal means anyway.

Here is a hypothetical situation that was actually portrayed in the HBO flick, If these walls could talk 2:

An elderly gay couple live together, suddenly one has an accident and is in a vegitative state in the hospital... this one has already voiced her wishes to her partner that wants to be kept alive by any means. Well the sick partner's family learns of the accident and after time decides to pull the plug, as legal next of kin.... the family's decision is what comes to be. With a marriage certificate this could have been prevented.

That is sad that the couple did not make legal arrangements beforehand.

shelly3950 Posted: May 19, 2004 04:51 PM

Re: Same Sex Marriage is Mass.. how do you feel about it?

Posted by BMD'sPeanut

Posted by shelly3950

There is definitely preference for wealthy celebrities when it comes to adoption (which isn't right IMO).

What does that mean?

Which part is not right? The fact that there is a preference for white newborns or the fact that only the wealthy can get them?

Sorry- What I meant is that celebrities should not be given priority on adoptions than average citizens who can provide for the child.

Kriss2c Posted: May 19, 2004 04:51 PM

Re: Same Sex Marriage is Mass.. how do you feel about it?

QUOTE]

ever hear of a will?

Ever heard of a will being contested? Unfortunately, in alot of cases the family contests the will and wins because they are the biological relative.

Yup, I'm in the profession and I see this a lot.

Kriss2c Posted: May 19, 2004 04:54 PM

Re: Same Sex Marriage is Mass.. how do you feel about it?

Posted by kel2004

Posted by Kriss2c

Here is a hypothetical situation that was actually portrayed in the HBO flick, If these walls could talk 2:

An elderly gay couple live together, suddenly one has an accident and is in a vegitative state in the hospital... this one has already voiced her wishes to her partner that wants to be kept alive by any means. Well the sick partner's family learns of the accident and after time decides to pull the plug, as legal next of kin.... the family's decision is what comes to be. With a marriage certificate this could have been prevented.

That is sad that the couple did not make legal arrangements beforehand.

I wonder if you would have the same reaction if it were a heterosexual couple. Say a couple that were not engaged yet but were planning on it. Would you be as nonchalant?

heidla Posted: May 19, 2004 04:55 PM

Re: Same Sex Marriage is Mass.. how do you feel about it?

Posted by BMD'sPeanut

Posted by shelly3950

There is definitely preference for wealthy celebrities when it comes to adoption (which isn't right IMO).

What does that mean?

Which part is not right? The fact that there is a preference for white newborns or the fact that only the wealthy can get them?

Well, IMO both. If I wanted a child and could not have one I don't believe I would only take a white baby. I would take whatever child needed my and my FH's love. The fact that wealthy people are granted all kinds of preferential treatment disturbs me.

shelly3950 Posted: May 19, 2004 04:56 PM

Re: Same Sex Marriage is Mass.. how do you feel about it?

Posted by Kriss2c

I wonder if you would have the same reaction if it were a heterosexual couple. Say a couple that were not engaged yet but were planning on it. Would you be as nonchalant?

Excellent Point!!!

eroxgirl Posted: May 19, 2004 04:57 PM

Re: Same Sex Marriage is Mass.. how do you feel about it?

Posted by kel2004

Posted by eroxgirl

Posted by don424

what i mean is having the marriage license doesn't give you any more benefits than not having one

This is incorrect.

If your wife, God forbid, falls terminally ill, you as her husband have the right to say what kind of medical treatment she receives, you have the right to live in your shared home as her husband if she should be incapacited, as well as a host of other rights that we, as heterosexuals take for granted.

Homosexuals do not have these rights as domestic partners or otherwise. In the same situation they can be tossed out of their homes, forbidden access to their significant other in the hospital, unable to make decisions on behalf of their loved one...all because they don't have that 'little piece of paper.'

If someone wants his gay partner to have access to him in the hospital, and/or make medical decisions for him, it can be done legally. I think it's called health proxy, or something like that. And that's just a different 'piece of paper'. Do you really think if Rosie's partner gets sick, she won't be there by her side?

Health care proxys are usually IGNORED by hospitals regardless...and they don't pertain to who can visit you in the hospital, they are usually along the lines of disconencting life support and such - some hospitals restrict it to immediate family only depending on the situation.

Re: Don's comment about a will...sure, I've heard of them, I've witnessed a bunch of them too...but WHY should people have to run out and write a will simply so they can continue to live in the same house with their S.O. after that person dies, say 50 years from now? How about let them get married like everyone else and then they don't have to worry about that aspect of life just yet?

And in response to BMD's question about why do those who support it care as much as they do: I don't believe in discrimination, and I see this as discrimination of homosexuals. I believe in a strong separation of church and state and I think prohibition of gay marriage is an invasion of that.

I also have gay family members who probably have no interest in getting married whatsoever, but I don't feel they should be denied that option if they so choose.

BMD'sPeanut Posted: May 19, 2004 04:58 PM

Re: Same Sex Marriage is Mass.. how do you feel about it?

Posted by kel2004

That is sad that the couple did not make legal arrangements beforehand.

That's what I was thinking...I think if you're going to be in any situation where your rights might be compromised, you should do everything you can to protect yourself, 'just in case'...

And as a matter of fact to the person who asked about the wills...As soon as my FH and I got engaged he started talking about having a will drawn up and that is something that we'll attend to as soon as we're married...

Also...I see no reason why the next of kin (or blood relative) shouldn't be allowed to have a say over what happens to a relative (or a relatives offspring). I actually have mixed feelings on this issue even with regard to heterosexual couples, so it's not necessarily only limited to gays (at least not in my mind.)

kel2004 Posted: May 19, 2004 05:02 PM

Re: Same Sex Marriage is Mass.. how do you feel about it?

Posted by Kriss2c

I wonder if you would have the same reaction if it were a heterosexual couple. Say a couple that were not engaged yet but were planning on it. Would you be as nonchalant?

I wasn't being nonchalant. It is sad that they didn't make arrangements beforehand. If my FH died tomorrow, I would not expect to inherit any of his property. If he fell ill, and there was a question of 'pulling the plug', I would not expect to make that decision. His mother would. We are not married yet and I am not in his will. If we were worried about that, we would have taken the necessary legal precautions.

Kriss2c Posted: May 19, 2004 05:04 PM

Re: Same Sex Marriage is Mass.. how do you feel about it?

Posted by kel2004

Posted by Kriss2c

I wonder if you would have the same reaction if it were a heterosexual couple. Say a couple that were not engaged yet but were planning on it. Would you be as nonchalant?

I wasn't being nonchalant. It is sad that they didn't make arrangements beforehand. If my FH died tomorrow, I would not expect to inherit any of his property. If he fell ill, and there was a question of 'pulling the plug', I would not expect to make that decision. His mother would. We are not married yet and I am not in his will. If we were worried about that, we would have taken the necessary legal precautions.

Again in the hypothetical..... let's say mom makes a decision you know is against FH's wishes..... what then..... and this is an accident we are talking about not a terminal illness.

ETA: and I'll take it one step further... say the couple (heterosexual) is living together, one bought the house with the intention that they both would live there once they are married.... only one name on mortgage, etc.

shelly3950 Posted: May 19, 2004 05:05 PM

Re: Same Sex Marriage is Mass.. how do you feel about it?

Posted by kel2004

Posted by Kriss2c

I wonder if you would have the same reaction if it were a heterosexual couple. Say a couple that were not engaged yet but were planning on it. Would you be as nonchalant?

I wasn't being nonchalant. It is sad that they didn't make arrangements beforehand. If my FH died tomorrow, I would not expect to inherit any of his property. If he fell ill, and there was a question of 'pulling the plug', I would not expect to make that decision. His mother would. We are not married yet and I am not in his will. If we were worried about that, we would have taken the necessary legal precautions.

Well unfortuntately for gay couples, there are no legal precautions to take. Will's only address property. Nothing but hospital policy dictates who makes DNR decisions. Not to mention wills are often contested. And once you are legally married, no matter what a will says, you are entitled to 60% of his property. He leave all his money to your children in his will, but you still get 60%. That's the law.

BMD'sPeanut Posted: May 19, 2004 05:06 PM

Re: Same Sex Marriage is Mass.. how do you feel about it?

Posted by Kriss2c

Again in the hypothetical..... let's say mom makes a decision you know is against FH's wishes..... what then..... and this is an accident we are talking about not a terminal illness.

That's really extreme...And what your hypothetical comes down to is just unfairness in life...That's always going to be there, no matter what.

Jordan Posted: May 19, 2004 05:07 PM

Re: Same Sex Marriage is Mass.. how do you feel about it?

Posted by kel2004

I wasn't being nonchalant. It is sad that they didn't make arrangements beforehand. If my FH died tomorrow, I would not expect to inherit any of his property. If he fell ill, and there was a question of 'pulling the plug', I would not expect to make that decision. His mother would. We are not married yet and I am not in his will. If we were worried about that, we would have taken the necessary legal precautions.

Your necessary legal precautions would be overridden by the next of kin, is a point that I think keeps getting lost.

Unless you are a blood relative or bound by marriage, you have no input, rights or say in what happens to the person you have been with (possibly sharing a home with) for the past 1, 5, 20 years.

heidla Posted: May 19, 2004 05:08 PM

Re: Same Sex Marriage is Mass.. how do you feel about it?

Posted by BMD'sPeanut

I am curious to know why those who feel so strongly in favor of gay marriage, feel so strongly.

I mean...What is the point of continously trying to drive your point(s) home?

I certainly do not feel as strongly against it as those who feel strongly for it.

I feel so strongly about this because in all honesty most of my friends are gay. I work in a predominately gay bar. I have been in theatre since I was 4. I think that my being able to plan my wedding and realizing that I am being granted a right that they do not have is just wrong. A domestic partnership is not the same. A commitment ceremony is not the same. If it were then I don't think this would be an issue.

I also feel strongly about it because the church has no business in government. Unfortunately, Bush is trying to push his fundamentalist beliefs on all of us. I will fight this to the bitter end. Everyone has the right to believe what they want in this country, but the government is suppose to stay impartial. That is the only way it will work.

Kriss2c Posted: May 19, 2004 05:14 PM

Re: Same Sex Marriage is Mass.. how do you feel about it?

Posted by BMD'sPeanut

That's really extreme...And what your hypothetical comes down to is just unfairness in life...That's always going to be there, no matter what.

How is it 'tough sh*t' for homosexuals but 'extreme' for heteros.

My point is this... with it being legal for them to marry... this can all be avoided.