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This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

Xelindrya Posted:

This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

The CNN Story

This really bothers me. I agree its wrong to abuse/attack/harm a pregnant woman. But this makes the line of what rights a fetus does and does not have a whole lot more blurry.

As a proud pro-choice follower. This really really bothers me.
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WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush on Thursday plans to sign into law legislation expanding legal rights of unborn fetuses in a ceremony in the White House Rose Garden.

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act, which took five years to get through Congress, makes it a crime to harm a fetus during an assault on a pregnant woman.

People on both sides of the fetal rights and abortion issue have said the new law will have far-reaching consequences.

Abortion opponents welcome it as a step toward more sweeping protections for the unborn, while abortion-rights proponents say the measure represents the first recognition in federal law of an embryo or fetus as a person separate from the woman.

Sen. John Kerry, Bush's Democratic opponent in the November presidential election, voted against the bill.

Bush has said he doesn't believe the country is ready to completely ban abortions; he opposes them except in cases of rape or incest or when pregnancy endangers a woman's life. That position has become a standard line in most of his speeches.

'We stand for a culture of life in which every person counts and every person matters. We will not stand for the treatment of any life as a commodity to be experimented upon, exploited or cloned,' the president told Republican donors to his campaign at a fund-raiser in Washington Tuesday night.

Bush has taken several actions that have pleased anti-abortion advocates.

As one of the first acts of his presidency, he reinstated the 'Mexico City policy' that bars U.S. money from international groups that support abortion, even with their own money, through direct services, counseling or lobbying activities.

He has signed legislation that bans certain late-term abortions and that amends legal definitions of 'person,' 'human being,' 'child' and 'individual' to include any fetus that survives an abortion.

He has increased federal support for abstinence education, adoption and crisis pregnancy programs; placed severe restrictions on federal funding for human embryonic stem cell research to only a few existing cell lines; and extended state health coverage to 'unborn children.'

The measure Bush was signing into law on Thursday is limited in scope, applying only to harm to a fetus while a federal crime, such as a terrorist attack or drug-related shooting, is being committed against the pregnant mother. The legislation defines an 'unborn child' as a child in utero, which it says 'means a member of the species homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb.'

A number of states have similar laws.




kel2004 Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

That is really interesting. I agree that it will have big consequences.

sweetadeline Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

I definitely agree with you, Xelindrya.

soon2bMrs Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

As a pro-choice person, I find this disturbing as well.

heidla Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

Scary!!!!

MCDO15 Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill


Posted by soon2bMrs

As a pro-choice person, I find this disturbing as well.



I agree
karen32 Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

i don't see it that bad at all. it says it is a crime to harm a fetus during an assault on a pregnant woman. i am not sure how people are drawing the line from that to abortion rights.
MCDO15 Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

it connected in a since that a women can have an abortion (killing the fetus) but if somone attacks a women that is prego and hurts the fetus..that is a crime.....wth

thats like being two-faced
karen32 Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

there's a huge difference with a woman choosing to have an abortion and someone attacking her and killing the fetus involuntarily.

if you are pregnant and mugged and your fetus dies, wouldn't you want the criminal to be held responsible for more than just a mugging???????????

MCDO15 Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill


Posted by karen32

there's a huge difference with a woman choosing to have an abortion and someone attacking her and killing the fetus involuntarily.

if you are pregnant and mugged and your fetus dies, wouldn't you want the criminal to be held responsible for more than just a mugging???????????




then why do we give women/man a choice to kill (common term - abort) a fetus and nothing happen to them?

you can't prevent a bad person trying to rob you or kill you but you can prevent yourself (women in general) from getting pregnant

not trying to pick a fight but 1 thing is the opposite the other, in my view
Jordan Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill


Posted by karen32

there's a huge difference with a woman choosing to have an abortion and someone attacking her and killing the fetus involuntarily.


Logic would say so. But since most anti-abortionist's feel that you are 'murdering your child' if you abort your fetus, the line (within this bill) can become fuzzy.

I think it was a very dangerous bill to pass in the eyes of most ProChoicer's - speaking for myself, it just seems like the beginning of a lot of 'fuzzy lined' accusations and verdicts.
heidla Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

The problem is not the fact that he is making it a crime to harm the fetus during a crime. The problem is that this law sets a precident for anti-abortion activists. It introduces a law stating that an unborn fetus has the same rights as a child that is born. It is going to cause alot of future debate as to when life actually begins.

bridget&jimmy Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

Well I disagree, I think abortions and this bill is two seperate incidents.

Take for example my cousin who was pregnanat and working in a school. Two girls started fighting in front of her. As the teacher she did not try to break it up but signaled for another teacher. Before the other teacher got over the other girls, one of the girls turned around to my cousin and pushed her down the stairs and told her to take that B****. Now you know what happened to this girl, nothing. You know what happened to my cousin, she lost her baby at 7 months and had to deliver a still born baby. The girl got a slap on the wrist and suspended from school, and my cousin has to live with her experience for the rest of her life.

With a bill like this it would make someone like this girl pay for her actions.
karen32 Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill


Posted by MCDO15

then why do we give women/man a choice to kill (common term - abort) a fetus and nothing happen to them?




because it is her body and she is CHOOSING to abort.

i think there is a huge difference. i am 100% pro-choice, if it makes any difference.

again - i am not an attorney - so i am reading what was posted very literally. i am sure both sides of the arguments have lawyers geared up ready to argue the loopholes and the intrepretations.

karen32 Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill


Posted by bridget&jimmy

Well I disagree, I think abortions and this bill is two seperate incidents.

Take for example my cousin who was pregnanat and working in a school. Two girls started fighting in front of her. As the teacher she did not try to break it up but signaled for another teacher. Before the other teacher got over the other girls, one of the girls turned around to my cousin and pushed her down the stairs and told her to take that B****. Now you know what happened to this girl, nothing. You know what happened to my cousin, she lost her baby at 7 months and had to deliver a still born baby. The girl got a slap on the wrist and suspended from school, and my cousin has to live with her experience for the rest of her life.

With a bill like this it would make someone like this girl pay for her actions.



bridget - i am so sorry to hear this happened to your cousin. but i agree with your point 100%!!!!!! i was trying to make a similar point, but you said it much better than i did!!!
heidla Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill


Posted by bridget&jimmy

Well I disagree, I think abortions and this bill is two seperate incidents.

Take for example my cousin who was pregnanat and working in a school. Two girls started fighting in front of her. As the teacher she did not try to break it up but signaled for another teacher. Before the other teacher got over the other girls, one of the girls turned around to my cousin and pushed her down the stairs and told her to take that B****. Now you know what happened to this girl, nothing. You know what happened to my cousin, she lost her baby at 7 months and had to deliver a still born baby. The girl got a slap on the wrist and suspended from school, and my cousin has to live with her experience for the rest of her life.

With a bill like this it would make someone like this girl pay for her actions.




I am so sorry to hear about your cousin.




bridget&jimmy Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

It is ok, it was a while ago and since then she has had 5 beautiful children. But it just goes to show a point, where lawyers can argue anything for a loop hole, any laws can be debated. But laws like these are used to protect not hurt people.

MCDO15 Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill


Posted by karen32


Posted by MCDO15

then why do we give women/man a choice to kill (common term - abort) a fetus and nothing happen to them?




because it is her body and she is CHOOSING to abort.




then she should of have used proper protection and/or avoid getting to a point where she feels she can't handle it
Jordan Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill


Posted by MCDO15


Posted by karen32


Posted by MCDO15

then why do we give women/man a choice to kill (common term - abort) a fetus and nothing happen to them?




because it is her body and she is CHOOSING to abort.




then she should of have used proper protection and/or avoid getting to a point where she feels she can't handle it

Now you're stepping over the line. In my personal opinion. Quite frankly, where do you get off saying something so callous? Besides the fact that your comment disregard's accident's, rape and molestation.


Posted by MCDO15


Posted by soon2bMrs

As a pro-choice person, I find this disturbing as well.



I agree



Are you really ProChoice or do you have restrictions on what you, as a man, believe a woman can and cannot do with her body? To me, it's an all or nothing stance - being ProSomething.
MCDO15 Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

is that for me?

i don't like abortion.. idea of it makes me kinda sick.

without a man, women are not getting pregnant..so yes, women's body but equal resonpability with the man that is involved.

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