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This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

Original post by Xelindrya

The CNN Story

This really bothers me. I agree its wrong to abuse/attack/harm a pregnant woman. But this makes the line of what rights a fetus does and does not have a whole lot more blurry.

As a proud pro-choice follower. This really really bothers me.
----------------

WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush on Thursday plans to sign into law legislation expanding legal rights of unborn fetuses in a ceremony in the White House Rose Garden.

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act, which took five years to get through Congress, makes it a crime to harm a fetus during an assault on a pregnant woman.

People on both sides of the fetal rights and abortion issue have said the new law will have far-reaching consequences.

Abortion opponents welcome it as a step toward more sweeping protections for the unborn, while abortion-rights proponents say the measure represents the first recognition in federal law of an embryo or fetus as a person separate from the woman.

Sen. John Kerry, Bush's Democratic opponent in the November presidential election, voted against the bill.

Bush has said he doesn't believe the country is ready to completely ban abortions; he opposes them except in cases of rape or incest or when pregnancy endangers a woman's life. That position has become a standard line in most of his speeches.

'We stand for a culture of life in which every person counts and every person matters. We will not stand for the treatment of any life as a commodity to be experimented upon, exploited or cloned,' the president told Republican donors to his campaign at a fund-raiser in Washington Tuesday night.

Bush has taken several actions that have pleased anti-abortion advocates.

As one of the first acts of his presidency, he reinstated the 'Mexico City policy' that bars U.S. money from international groups that support abortion, even with their own money, through direct services, counseling or lobbying activities.

He has signed legislation that bans certain late-term abortions and that amends legal definitions of 'person,' 'human being,' 'child' and 'individual' to include any fetus that survives an abortion.

He has increased federal support for abstinence education, adoption and crisis pregnancy programs; placed severe restrictions on federal funding for human embryonic stem cell research to only a few existing cell lines; and extended state health coverage to 'unborn children.'

The measure Bush was signing into law on Thursday is limited in scope, applying only to harm to a fetus while a federal crime, such as a terrorist attack or drug-related shooting, is being committed against the pregnant mother. The legislation defines an 'unborn child' as a child in utero, which it says 'means a member of the species homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb.'

A number of states have similar laws.




prncssrachel Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

This is just one more reason why I will be voting for anyone other than Bush.

Xelindrya Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

Posted by kel2004
So it's okay to kill a baby if the mother doesn't think she can handle it. What about adoption?


WHOOHooo lets get deep

I am actually involved in an active case study of genetics. Why? Cause I was born with Waardenburg Syndrome Type 2 which 50% chance of having moderate to complete deafness. What am I doing? Giving blood so they can be able to start identifying early in pregancy if that child will be deaf or at least have my syndrome.

Do I think *I* personally would be able to abort (not kill) an embryo (not child) which I was carrying that was abnormal to the point that i felt I couldnt care for it (mind you I can take a lot cause my brother is mentally handicapped but we care for him just fine)?? Yes. I would abort. I'd be hypocritical if I said it wouldnt matter. But the point is I've discussed this in length with my partner (jim) and we've come to a point of agreement. No child should be made to suffer. God knows I suffered enough and Im normal just 'different'.

What about adoption? Good question, what about it? My kid brothers and sisters are adopted. I find adoption to be a very wise CHOICE. If we can't have children, I'd adopt. But my CHOICE would be not to give up my child. It's my child and NO ONE can have it but me. Selfish? Self-Centered? Possesive? Greedy? Sinful, perhaps? Yep and I don't apologize for it.

Xelindrya Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

Posted by 121502

This is just one more reason why I will be voting for anyone other than Bush.


LOL


Funny thing is.. I voted for Bush before and I'll vote for him again because I don't like Kerry. But I always admit I don't 100% agree with Bush (obviously) but to me it's the better choice.

heidla Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

Posted by butterfly20

hmmm.... personally... a baby that would be born with a major disease is a big responsibility, the baby would require alot of medical treatment which could get expensive, would require more care than a normal baby which the mother might not be able to handle..



Are you talking about only in cases of rape or are you including possible DNA issuses within a couple?
butterfly20 Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

Posted by ChristineC68

What if the disease/condition/illness is something that is inherited through the DNA of someone you have consented to have sex with? Something you won't know until after the baby is conceived.

What if the method of contraception fails?


well contraception is not 100%... if you dont want to have a baby then you should abstain from sex, or have the operation for tubes tied or the male snip....with contraception there is a small chance you can get pregant, and by having sex you should be prepared for it...

i guess its easy for me to say that since im abstaining until im married, when im married my fh and i will then use contraception and if i become pregnant before i plan to start trying then ill have the baby, but im not taking the 'risk of pregnancy' until after im married since i wont be ready for it..
ChristineC68 Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

What about my other question?

eroxgirl Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

Posted by SteffieSunshine1

I'm pro-choice also, and I do not see this as a problem. The difference is in what you choose to do to your body or concerning your fetus as opposed to what someone else does to you/your fetus against your will.

Any idea can be taken to an extreme, but I don't think holding someone accountable for harming mother and child as a step backward for the pro-choice movement. JMO.


The law could have been written differently, so that it would be protecting the MOTHER and not explicitly the FETUS. The next step with this litigation will be someone pressing charges against an abortion doctor for 'harming the fetus' or some teenager who has second thoughts about having had an abortion and will go running to the courts and say that someone 'convinced' her to have an abortion and the slippery slope begins from there...that's why I personally am against this litigation.
prncssrachel Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

Posted by eroxgirl


The law could have been written differently, so that it would be protecting the MOTHER and not explicitly the FETUS. The next step with this litigation will be someone pressing charges against an abortion doctor for 'harming the fetus' or some teenager who has second thoughts about having had an abortion and will go running to the courts and say that someone 'convinced' her to have an abortion and the slippery slope begins from there...that's why I personally am against this litigation.


This is exactly the thought that came to my mind as soon as I read the story. It's like taking the back entrance to the issue. There's always something underlying in these 'fuzzy' bills, and I am just guessing that this may be their alterior motive. JMO.
butterfly20 Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

Posted by ChristineC68

What if the disease/condition/illness is something that is inherited through the DNA of someone you have consented to have sex with? Something you won't know until after the baby is conceived.
.......

hmmm.... that gets tricky i guess...why wouldnt you know it until after the baby is conceived? shouldnt the girl know the guys medical history before comitting to such a serious act as sex?

its tough because now so many people are having sex, middle school children, high school kids, people dont think about it like they use to, they dont think of the consequences, and how serious it actually is... people seemed so rushed to want to have it,
Jordan Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

Posted by eroxgirl

The law could have been written differently, so that it would be protecting the MOTHER and not explicitly the FETUS. The next step with this litigation will be someone pressing charges against an abortion doctor for 'harming the fetus' or some teenager who has second thoughts about having had an abortion and will go running to the courts and say that someone 'convinced' her to have an abortion and the slippery slope begins from there...that's why I personally am against this litigation.
Thank you for succinctly saying what I was thinking but unable to express.
heidla Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

Posted by butterfly20

Posted by ChristineC68

What if the disease/condition/illness is something that is inherited through the DNA of someone you have consented to have sex with? Something you won't know until after the baby is conceived.
.......

hmmm.... that gets tricky i guess...why wouldnt you know it until after the baby is conceived? shouldnt the girl know the guys medical history before comitting to such a serious act as sex?

,


Sorry, but I have to chime in on this comment.

My cousin and her husband have been married for 7 years. They had their first child (who is a beautiful healthy girl ) almost 6 years ago. They decided to have another child who is now 3 years old. Well, their second child is an albino and is blind(she is wonderful in every way). The chances of this happening were so slight . Both my cousin and her husband had to be carriers and guess what they were. My cousin is now pregnant with her third child. That child is struggling for its life in her womb it has a genetic dysfunction that is causing fluid to surround the heart and base of the neck. The baby has no chance for survival, but my cousin needs for the death to be natural.

I guess my point is that unless you want to start requiring genetic testing on all couple who are going to get married there will always be the chance for abnormalities. I could(and do ) know all about my FH's medical history. That does not mean that we both could not secretly be carrying some genetic disease.
dm24angel Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

Posted by eroxgirl

Posted by SteffieSunshine1

I'm pro-choice also, and I do not see this as a problem. The difference is in what you choose to do to your body or concerning your fetus as opposed to what someone else does to you/your fetus against your will.

Any idea can be taken to an extreme, but I don't think holding someone accountable for harming mother and child as a step backward for the pro-choice movement. JMO.


The law could have been written differently, so that it would be protecting the MOTHER and not explicitly the FETUS. The next step with this litigation will be someone pressing charges against an abortion doctor for 'harming the fetus' or some teenager who has second thoughts about having had an abortion and will go running to the courts and say that someone 'convinced' her to have an abortion and the slippery slope begins from there...that's why I personally am against this litigation.


I think that thinking is a little extreme, you have a point but the courts are developed to hold intelligent people that will not allow such law suits.
ChristineC68 Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

Posted by dm24angel

I think that thinking is a little extreme, you have a point but the courts are developed to hold intelligent people that will not allow such law suits.


While I would love to agree with you, we live in an age where McDonald's was sued for making people overweight.
Xelindrya Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

Posted by ChristineC68
While I would love to agree with you, we live in an age where McDonald's was sued for making people overweight.






so true
dm24angel Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

Posted by ChristineC68


While I would love to agree with you, we live in an age where McDonald's was sued for making people overweight.


but did they lose? Thats the point I think, anyone can sue for anything, how far its taken is something different.
ChristineC68 Posted:

Re: This bothers me. CNN Story: Bush to sign fetus-protection bill

Yes, they lost. But they don't all lose. There was that woman that was awarded millions of dollars for burning herself with hot coffee.

You said intelligent people would not allow the lawsuits but these lawsuits do make it into a court room.

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