Why did Bush win? 'Values?' or Ignorance?

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Posted by KerrC

That may be true, but we are paying more for gas...the cost of living as a whole has risen and we are enjoying less services. Our dollar is steadily decreasing in value because of our rising deficit.

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Cost of living increases every year (in case you haven't figured that out). Gas is rising EVERYWHERE... not just the US so we have no control over that. Our dollar is decreasing... well that really only affects people that plan on travelling. Me personally... i don't plan on leaving the states so that has no impact.

And if you think the US pays a lot for gas... try living in Europe.

Ask USUK2004 what she pays for gas per litre... and you will be glad the US still gets decent gas prices.

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Posted by DjPiLL

Our dollar is decreasing... well that really only affects people that plan on travelling. Me personally... i don't plan on leaving the states so that has no impact.

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This is simply not true. We live in a global economy and our decreasing dollar can buy less foreign goods. This has a huge impact on our trade and our entire economy.

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Posted by DjPiLL

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Posted by KerrC

That may be true, but we are paying more for gas...the cost of living as a whole has risen and we are enjoying less services. Our dollar is steadily decreasing in value because of our rising deficit.

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Cost of living increases every year (in case you haven't figured that out). Gas is rising EVERYWHERE... not just the US so we have no control over that. Our dollar is decreasing... well that really only affects people that plan on travelling. Me personally... i don't plan on leaving the states so that has no impact.

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Actually the fact that the worth of our dollar is decreasing does not only affect people who are traveling. It affects your purchasing power. What you were able to buy years ago with a dollar you can't today. The cost of living rising is a fact of life,like you said, but the rate at which this is happening should be cause for alarm. Younger people will have to work 10 times as hard to have what their parents had at the same age.

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Posted by DjPiLL

And if you think the US pays a lot for gas... try living in Europe.

Ask USUK2004 what she pays for gas per litre... and you will be glad the US still gets decent gas prices.

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Well, since my husband is English and I have traveled to Europe I am well aware of how much they pay for fuel. But, our rising prices definitely have a negative effect on the US economy and it causes a ripple effect throughout the prices of goods as a whole.

Give me one example of a 'foreign good' or something that affects my everyday life where the american dollar is 'devalued' like you say.

And you can't count items that were based upon inflation cause inflation is a fact of life.

Inflation Linky

Plus... your comment on inflation rising at an 'alarming rate' is a seriously flawed comment.

Its not rising any more than it did during the prime Clinton Years (93-98). To call something 'alarming' should tell me that it better be SIGNIFICANTLY more than what we have seen in the last 10 years. And nope... that arguement is weak at best.

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Posted by ambersmom

Tens of thousands of women and children died because we were unwilling to even send them some food throughout the 1990's


Ahhh, you mean when Clinton was in power, right??? There are MILLIONS of people dying in the nations of Africa too due to starvation. Why aren't you crying foul in their names as well???

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We didn't invade Iraq to save the Iraqis from Saddam's 'evil' power.
If that was the reason, ,then I'd respect our motives.

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Posted by Sassyz75

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Posted by ambersmom

Tens of thousands of women and children died because we were unwilling to even send them some food throughout the 1990's


Ahhh, you mean when Clinton was in power, right??? There are MILLIONS of people dying in the nations of Africa too due to starvation. Why aren't you crying foul in their names as well???

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We didn't invade Iraq to save the Iraqis from Saddam's 'evil' power.
If that was the reason, ,then I'd respect our motives.

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Exactly!!! We invaded Iraq for WMD's, Terron connections to Iraq and oil. Well, one of the three exist. Obviously this administration has done a great job at spinning a negative into a positive if people actually believe that we initially went into Iraq to free the people. If that were the case then why not senf troops to stop the genocide and free Samolia. Why? becauase they have nothing that we need. The US looks out for itself and is not interested in 'Spreading Freedom' unless there are benefits for us to reap.

Ignorance absolutely plays a role in every election including this one - that is not to say that every single person in the United States who voted for Bush did so out of ignorance, I just want to make that perfectly clear before I get lynched.

I don't know if anyone is familiar with the Almond-Lippman Thesis, but it was a study done in the 1950s and then again in the 60s that basically shows the average American person knows almost nothing about current events. The fact that people believe we found WMDs in Iraq doesn't surprise me - it's completely consistent with the average American political knowledge over the last 50 years.

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Posted by DjPiLL

Give me one example of a 'foreign good' or something that affects my everyday life where the american dollar is 'devalued' like you say.

And you can't count items that were based upon inflation cause inflation is a fact of life.

Inflation Linky

Plus... your comment on inflation rising at an 'alarming rate' is a seriously flawed comment.

Its not rising any more than it did during the prime Clinton Years (93-98). To call something 'alarming' should tell me that it better be SIGNIFICANTLY more than what we have seen in the last 10 years. And nope... that arguement is weak at best.

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I think price of oil like someone mentioned before is a very good example of a foreign good that has impacted the purchasing power of the dollar.

Given the loss of various industries and jobs in this country, particularly in the last four years the cost of living is alarming for some people in this country-we are pretty much in an economic recession. You must take into account other factors that affect the cost of living for people, not mere theory, or the inflation link you sent us.

Home prices are at an all-time high. The DOW is back over the 10k mark (increased about 3000 in the past two-three years).

Last month we had a record number of jobs added.

Doesn't sound like we are in a recession to me.


I only posted the inflation link to show that your reasoning about 'an alarming rise in inflation' was flawed.

I agree with DjPill that the economy is rebounding nicely from the recession that started towards the end of Clinton's term and deepened after 9/11.

I also like tax cuts, Bush's handling of the war on terror, and other issues. I'm not going to debate why I (and the majority of America) believed that GWB was the better man for president. It has been debated ad nauseum and let's face it...no one is going to change their beliefs over an Internet chat room. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and each side has valid points. So, it's useless to debate it. Especially, at this point. All silly conspiracy theories aside, Bush won and is our president for the next 4 years.

But, I just wonder. I read and hear so much from Democrats calling Republican voters and those 'red states' ignorant. At first, I was really offended by it as I consider myself a well informed voter. Now, I just think it is sour grapes.

However, do you really think that this constant name calling is going to endear 58 million people + to the democratic party in 2008? I think this constant labeling of Republicans as 'ignorant' is just going to further disenfranchise the majority of this nation's voters from the Democrats. Which is just fine by me.

I'll tell you right now... the Democrats are screwed... not only for the next four years... but possibly for the next twelve.

Even after Dubya is out... guess who will be running on the Republican Ticket? Either McCain or Guiliani. (maybe Pataki... but I doubt that). And its even more possible that you will see McCain/Guiliani on the same ticket P/VP (depending on who wins the primary).

Who are the Democrats going to counter this with? HILLARY? Hillary would get so OWNED in an election. The only thing that could save themselves would be if Slick Willy Clinton decides to run again (not sure if he can or not). And like the billboard said... I think after the whole Monica thing... he left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouth.

Lets face it. The Democrats and liberals are going to have to wait a LONG time before they start to gain recognition again.

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Posted by Bride626

I agree with DjPill that the economy is rebounding nicely from the recession that started towards the end of Clinton's term and deepened after 9/11.

I also like tax cuts, Bush's handling of the war on terror, and other issues. I'm not going to debate why I (and the majority of America) believed that GWB was the better man for president. It has been debated ad nauseum and let's face it...no one is going to change their beliefs over an Internet chat room. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and each side has valid points. So, it's useless to debate it. Especially, at this point. All silly conspiracy theories aside, Bush won and is our president for the next 4 years.

But, I just wonder. I read and hear so much from Democrats calling Republican voters and those 'red states' ignorant. At first, I was really offended by it as I consider myself a well informed voter. Now, I just think it is sour grapes.

However, do you really think that this constant name calling is going to endear 58 million people + to the democratic party in 2008? I think this constant labeling of Republicans as 'ignorant' is just going to further disenfranchise the majority of this nation's voters from the Democrats. Which is just fine by me.

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Very well said. I think it is great that people are passionate about things (even if they are wrong ) but what I hate is the labeling and self-righteous atttitude of some Democrats/Independents who think they are so highbrow. And that was my 1000 post - woo-hoo I finally made it after 3 yrs.

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Posted by DjPiLL

I'll tell you right now... the Democrats are screwed... not only for the next four years... but possibly for the next twelve.

Even after Dubya is out... guess who will be running on the Republican Ticket? Either McCain or Guiliani. (maybe Pataki... but I doubt that). And its even more possible that you will see McCain/Guiliani on the same ticket P/VP (depending on who wins the primary).

Who are the Democrats going to counter this with? HILLARY? Hillary would get so OWNED in an election. The only thing that could save themselves would be if Slick Willy Clinton decides to run again (not sure if he can or not). And like the billboard said... I think after the whole Monica thing... he left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouth.

Lets face it. The Democrats and liberals are going to have to wait a LONG time before they start to gain recognition again.

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Wow Nostrodamus, we'll check back in four years to see how your predictions panned out. A lot can happen in 4 years. Only 2 years ago everyone thought that no one could have challanged Dubya, but he did face a formidable challange and managed to eek out the slimmest margin of victory of any sitting president since Woodrow Wilson. I think it's a bit early for doomsday predictions.

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Posted by lesleyw

Wow Nostrodamus, we'll check back in four years to see how your predictions panned out. A lot can happen in 4 years. Only 2 years ago everyone thought that no one could have challanged Dubya, but he did face a formidable challange and managed to eek out the slimmest margin of victory of any sitting president since Woodrow Wilson. I think it's a bit early for doomsday predictions.

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I agree!

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Posted by lesleyw

Wow Nostrodamus, we'll check back in four years to see how your predictions panned out. A lot can happen in 4 years. Only 2 years ago everyone thought that no one could have challanged Dubya, but he did face a formidable challange and managed to eek out the slimmest margin of victory of any sitting president since Woodrow Wilson. I think it's a bit early for doomsday predictions.

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True... but I was predicting a Bush re-election over a year ago. So I guess two out of two wouldn't be bad.

And who said nobody would challenge Dubya? LOL I never heard that one... the Liberals have been trying to oust him since a day after the 2000 election.

And if you don't think people are already planning the 2008 election now... you better think again. I'll guarantee you if Guiliani is serious about the presidency in 2008... he will accept the Attorney General position that Bush is supposedly offering him.

The only reason Hillary took the senator job was to pad her political resume for an eventual run at the presidency.

Why do you think there were pro-Schumer ads all over the TV when EVERYBODY knew he was gonna own the election? Because he will probably make a run for governor in 2006 and he wants to get his 'name out' to the public.

I can go on and on with examples.

I can't stand Hillary Clinton...

Just wanted to throw that in there

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Posted by lesleyw

I never said politicians weren't sizing up thier chances for 2008, I was saying it's too early to know how things will pan out right now. I think a lot depends on what happens with Iraq, the economy, terrorism, etc. There are a lot of 'X' factors that could tip the scale in ways we wouldn't even imagine right now.

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The issues that may happen in the four years really aren't going to change the fact that the Democrats have absolutely NOBODY thats strong enough that can take out either McCain or Guiliani.

Name me one Democrat (not named Clinton) that you think would even have a chance in 2008?