Have you ever been disillusioned by your own faith?

I am dealing with some religious issues that are a bit extensive to explain but I'll try. My nephew is about to have a Bar Mitzvah and his relatives are called to the altar in front of the Torah with honors to help him celebrate this most special milestone. However, it seems as if FH and I cannot read the prayers before and after the Torah portion for the week because we are not married. This is coming from a Conservative Rabbi in a Conservative temple. Not all temples are the same but the cconservative movement is just that - CONSERVATIVE. We can open the ark together. We can 'dress the Torah' together. But we cannot read together because we aren't married. If we were brother and sister we could.

I had religious training for 5 years. I had a Bat Mitzvah and took it very seriously. I know the prayers in Hebrew. I know the importance of it all. Reading before the Torah is a BIG deal. It hurts knowing that my relationship with Ed (the man with whom I will be perpetuating my faith) is not held in high regard. I guess I am disillusioned and it leads me to wonder how I will raise my kids. I think I may have to go towards the Reform movement of Judaism.

Anyone else ever wrestle with their faith? sorry for the rant!

well, not to sound like clergy (but oops I am!), but to be part of b'nei yisrael (the children of Israel) means we struggle.
The name Israel means struggle.
It is difficult, and I come across this all the time, but different branches of Judaism and different congregations w/ in those branches have varying customs that may or may not fit in w/ how you personally practice. You may not agree w/ it, but that is their custom so you have to respect it while you are in their congregation.

I have Orthodox relatives that dont consider me to be Jewish because I am a Reform Jew and they wont recognize me as a Cantor either. (also because I am a woman...)

and now not to sound like clergy: it sux that you and your fh cant say the blessings together....

I think about this stuff a lot.

I wasn't raised very religious at all but still consider myself a jew.

I'd like to learn more about my own religion and even start some traditions with my FH. But I don't like how most organized religions treat women. Also, I don't read or speak Hebrew and I prefer to go to services that I can appreciate and understand, with lots of English explanation.

Thank you for your input. FH said the same thing. After discussing this conflict at length last night, I realize that I lean towards the Reform movement and he leans toward the Conservative. We were both raised in Conservative congregations in very affluent communities. My parents chose their temple based on a Hebrew School carpool and not for any other reason. They did not ask me to go to Hebrew School. I chose to go (at 8 years old). FH and I need to find a Conservative synagogue that is more egalitarian in nature or we could be in conflict as well - i don't want that. But we are both reasonable people. As a man I think itis him for him to understand how I feel since the Conservative movement is more male-friendly. He may change. I may change

It was indoctrinated that I, as a Jewish woman, am obligated to perpetuate the faith by having and raising Jewish children and teach them the customs and rituals involved. THERE is my conflict. I don't understand why if I am responsible for this and I am educated in my faith, why I cannot share these rituals with ANYONE.

FH explained it to me in a very easy way. The Jewish marriage contract, the Ketubah, is a binding document. It is taken very seriously. When two people stand together as a couple who are not married, it takes away from the sanctity of that contract. I guess it is similar in thought to the conflict of the gay and lesbian community who want the same rights as everyone else (which I happen to agree with mind you).

I also take the contract seriously, but the day I accepted my engagement ring, was the day I confirmed by obligation to my religion and the promise I made to continue my faith by having a Jewish home. This not being recognized sits uneasy with me. However I have no choice but to acccept it.

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Posted by Goldi1021

This is coming from a Conservative Rabbi in a Conservative temple. Not all temples are the same but the cconservative movement is just that - CONSERVATIVE.

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I'm still amazed to this day that back in the 70's Neither my mother (nor myself) was allowed to be at my baby naming..Conservative. I'd like to think this has changed but your post makes me wonder.

Anyway everytime I feel the Reform side pulling me, I remember a service I went to a few years again for my cousin's baby naming where everyone was encouraged to clap during prayers, the service was awful and I felt really uncomfortable. It didn't feel religious enough to me..if that makes sense.

me! FH and I were both raised Catholics, but we also both want an outdoor wedding near the ocean. The church will not marry us outside of the church building - but they would consider giving us a disspensation and doing it if one of us was not Catholic. I am just so fed up with the whole process. Personally I feel that God created the ocean/trees/plants that I want to be part of my special day, he did not build the church building. It was built by some construction workers and given pretty stain glass windows and statues, and they want me to believe it is more sacred than God's green Earth. Personally I feel it is a cloaked form of Idolatry, and I am even more annoyed because they would make an exception if FH or I were not Catholic. Why is it wrong for some to get married outside the church, but OK for others?

Ugh - rant over. I really am thinking that I need to find a new religion.

I have had my struggles with my faith to, Catholicism. I had I guess what you may call an 'epiphany' when I visited the Vatican. it is so beautiful- gold and marble everywhere, yet the church where I will be married in is old and worse for wear. Stained glass windows are cracked and in disrepair, and this is allowed b/c the community it serves cannot afford to put a lot of cash into the church
s coffers.

I believe in the tenants and commandments of my faith (which are very similar to the Jewish) but I just do not like the bureaucracy and the greed in the hierarchy of the church itself. TOO political...I don't think it's what Jesus has intended....

and historically the Popes UGH...Dante's Inferno says it all....though I did think John Paul was a good man of conviction, even if I didn't agree with some of his views.

ok.. I guess we go through it, but faith and organized religion are not always on the same page.

Absolutely. My catholic family is appalled that I've entirely pulled away from the church, but organized religion does not sustain or fulfill me in any way. Jessica is right - it's too political and it's not what Jesus intended. I also have issues with the role of women in the church.

I've started to look toward the eastern philosophies; perhaps they will be able to help find the answers I'm looking for.

Oh Leslie, constantly!!!!!! My FH and I are both Catholic, we've received all our sacraments, his daughter just got her 1st Communion. Yet we're not getting married in church.

Why? Because in order to do so he'd have to annul his 1st marriage. It's just not right, in order to do so he'd have to pay a large fee and we don't believe that the church says divorce is wrong unless you give us money, then it's ok!!!

I argue when people suggest that my marriage won't be recognized in the eyes of God. Our ceremony will be held on the green earth that He created, not in some building that man created. I believe it is clear to Him the love that we share and He will honor our marriage. That rule wasn't made by God, it was made by the church. I trust that our God is forgiving and understands.

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Posted by cindyandkevin

I argue when people suggest that my marriage won't be recognized in the eyes of God. Our ceremony will be held on the green earth that He created, not in some building that man created. I believe it is clear to Him the love that we share and He will honor our marriage. That rule wasn't made by God, it was made by the church. I trust that our God is forgiving and understands.

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I agree! I think what really matters is how you treat other people and live your life, not if you get married IN a church

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Posted by ShortBride

05'er here. I understand what you mean. I am likely not going to circle my fiancee during the ceremony, b/c of what it symbolizes. We are both reform, though. Have you considered reconstructionist? Its a very small branch, but it has parts of both reform and conservative... I went to reconstructionist services once and really liked it.

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FH mentioned the Reconstructionist movement. I would have to do my own research because I do not know enough about it to make a decision on that.

As far as the circling thing goes. I would like to adapt it having me circling him 3 times, him circling me three times and then us doing the last circle together. It would be either that or nothing at all.

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Posted by SuzBride

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Posted by cindyandkevin

I argue when people suggest that my marriage won't be recognized in the eyes of God. Our ceremony will be held on the green earth that He created, not in some building that man created. I believe it is clear to Him the love that we share and He will honor our marriage. That rule wasn't made by God, it was made by the church. I trust that our God is forgiving and understands.

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I agree! I think what really matters is how you treat other people and live your life, not if you get married IN a church

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I read your post after I replied, and I kept thinking: EXACTLY!!! We also believe that living a good life and always trying to do the right thing is what's important.

I can tell you when I became disillusioned by my faith-
My family was never religious at all. I decided when I was around 10 years old that I wanted to go to hebrew school. Like Leslie, my parents sent me to the one where they could have a carpool with other parents. This was a small conservative congregation. My strongest memory is that I went to a party there for a holiday (I do not remember which one), and all the women and men were separated. The men were in one half the room, and they were allowed to dance and have fun, while the women sat around the other half of the room and had to watch the men. I was appalled, even at 10 years old to see this sort of sexism. That was my only year of Hebrew School.
I am marrying a non-Jewish man, and we are having a totally non-denominational ceremony. When children come into the picture, we will probably celebrate traditions from both religions.

the reconstructionist movement was started by Mordechai Kaplan in the 1920's. It came out of the Conservative movement.
Their Rabbinic school (RRC) is in Philadelphia and their Cantorial school is part of Gratz College.

Liberal Judaism does not require circling.
Make an informed decision about what makes you happy as Jew. Talk to your clergy person about how to make your ceremony more personal and fitting to you and your fh.

one of my professors (who is a Rabbi) put it this way:
God is like a watchmaker, he/she put the world into motion and then stepped back to let his/her creation do what it will....

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Posted by evnme

one of my professors (who is a Rabbi) put it this way:
God is like a watchmaker, he/she put the world into motion and then stepped back to let his/her creation do what it will....

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That is a good analogy and that is what I think too BUT it makes me upset that God can't step in and intervene

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Posted by beautyq115

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Posted by evnme

one of my professors (who is a Rabbi) put it this way:
God is like a watchmaker, he/she put the world into motion and then stepped back to let his/her creation do what it will....

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That is a good analogy and that is what I think too BUT it makes me upset that God can't step in and intervene

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He/She hasnt stepped in since Biblical times....