Terry Schiavo's parents

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Posted by don424

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Posted by MonkeyLuv

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Posted by don424

we can go back and forth on this all day

you're not changing my opinion and i'm not changing yours

there is no right or wrong here

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So the minute someone challenges you and calls your logic faulty you shut down and revert to 'we have to agree to disagree' rather than attempt to back up your statements with facts and reason.

That defeats the entire point of a debate, doesn't it?

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but this debate has been going on for like 2 days already...all of my opinions have been stated and backed up multiple times

i was challenged yesterday and backed up my feelings for an entire day

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But you really didn't, you cited a phrase from the marriage vows, made a vague reference to hoping Michael Schiavo dies and then said it's all in God's hands without making a distinction where Man's interference ends and God's begins. You excluded any legal reasoning and philisophical reasoning, relying solely on your opinion and the most general reference to religion.

i also voiced my theories in other threads on this topic

there were like 10 started

and i never said i hope he dies

i said that he will get knocked off by a fanatic more than likely, and i don't agree with that

i'm not for 'an eye for an eye'

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Posted by don424

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Posted by MonkeyLuv

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Posted by don424

it's a shame that people treat the marriage vows so frivolously these days

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Don, you're doing the exact same thing by claiming Michael Schiavo doesn't have a say in his wife's condition. Legally, he is next of kin by the bonds of matrimony. The decision falls on his shoulders. Furthermore, her parents appointed him guardian!

According to the bible, when a man marries he 'leaves his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh'. That union leaves no room for the parents to make decisions.

When you reference the sanctity of marriage with 'till death do us part', you must also recognize that he is well within his rights to make this decisions as her husband.

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as i said,

no one has the right to determine when her time is

not the husband
not the parents
not the gov't

only God has the distinction to call her and to tamper with His will is wrong IMO

ESPECIALLY when the vitals (i.e. lungs, heart etc.) are still working without assistance

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So wouldn't giving her a feeding tube temper with God's will?

Or is it tampering only when it's convenient when it supports your argument?

Isn't any form of treatment 'tampering with God's will'?

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Posted by curliegirl

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Posted by don424

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Posted by MonkeyLuv

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Posted by don424

it's a shame that people treat the marriage vows so frivolously these days

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Don, you're doing the exact same thing by claiming Michael Schiavo doesn't have a say in his wife's condition. Legally, he is next of kin by the bonds of matrimony. The decision falls on his shoulders. Furthermore, her parents appointed him guardian!

According to the bible, when a man marries he 'leaves his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh'. That union leaves no room for the parents to make decisions.

When you reference the sanctity of marriage with 'till death do us part', you must also recognize that he is well within his rights to make this decisions as her husband.

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as i said,

no one has the right to determine when her time is

not the husband
not the parents
not the gov't

only God has the distinction to call her and to tamper with His will is wrong IMO

ESPECIALLY when the vitals (i.e. lungs, heart etc.) are still working without assistance

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So wouldn't giving her a feeding tube temper with God's will?

Or is it tampering only when it's convenient when it supports your argument?

Isn't any form of treatment 'tampering with God's will'?

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a feeding tube is not treatment IMO

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Posted by don424

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Posted by curliegirl

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Posted by don424

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Posted by MonkeyLuv

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Posted by don424

it's a shame that people treat the marriage vows so frivolously these days

---

Don, you're doing the exact same thing by claiming Michael Schiavo doesn't have a say in his wife's condition. Legally, he is next of kin by the bonds of matrimony. The decision falls on his shoulders. Furthermore, her parents appointed him guardian!

According to the bible, when a man marries he 'leaves his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh'. That union leaves no room for the parents to make decisions.

When you reference the sanctity of marriage with 'till death do us part', you must also recognize that he is well within his rights to make this decisions as her husband.

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as i said,

no one has the right to determine when her time is

not the husband
not the parents
not the gov't

only God has the distinction to call her and to tamper with His will is wrong IMO

ESPECIALLY when the vitals (i.e. lungs, heart etc.) are still working without assistance

---

So wouldn't giving her a feeding tube temper with God's will?

Or is it tampering only when it's convenient when it supports your argument?

Isn't any form of treatment 'tampering with God's will'?

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a feeding tube is not treatment IMO

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WHAT!!!!!!

How can you say that!!!!

That is THEMOST RIDICULOUS thing you have said all day.

Keeping someone alive by giving them nutrients so they won't die isn't treatment?

WOW! This is insane.

nutrients don't keep you alive

i'm eating lunch in a few, is that gonna keep me alive?

no, i could drop dead of a massive heart attack tonight

ventilators keep you alive

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Posted by don424
a feeding tube is not treatment IMO

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Your opinion is wrong, because unlike nearly every other method of feeding, PEG feeding does not require the cooperation or consent of the person being treated. In effect, PEG is a form of forced feeding. It's medically called 'life-sustaining treatment' and 'artifical nutrition'.

Furthermore, the American Medical Association, a President's Commission and almost every appellate court decision have agreed that artificial nutrition and hydration is a form of medical treatment that may be legally refused.

Whether or not tube-feeding is considered treatment is not up for debate. It is treatment.

I have a slight problem with this whole 'tampering with God's will' thing stated here...
By that rationale....when someone's heart stops...for whatever reason, at whatever age, it is God's will that that person die and no measures should be taken to save them?
That's insane!!!
My grandfather had a major heart attack 20 something years ago.....his heart stopped....he was dead...and the amazing doctors brought him back to life. He just celebrated his 76th birthday (or somewhere around there).
Had they not done that for him, he would never have had the joy of seeing his grandchildren gorw up, and would never have met other grandchildren. You're saying that would have been God's will? For him to be taken from our lives?
I can honestly say that I 100% do not agree with that philosophy!!

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Posted by don424

nutrients don't keep you alive

i'm eating lunch in a few, is that gonna keep me alive?

no, i could drop dead of a massive heart attack tonight

ventilators keep you alive

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You are being close-minded and nitpicky, and YES you would die if you never ate again.

Food isn't nutrients.......YOU HAVE LOST AND AND GONE OFF THE DEEP END!

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Posted by MonkeyLuv

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Posted by don424
a feeding tube is not treatment IMO

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Your opinion is wrong, because unlike nearly every other method of feeding, PEG feeding does not require the cooperation or consent of the person being treated. In effect, PEG is a form of forced feeding. It's medically called 'life-sustaining treatment' and 'artifical nutrition'.

Furthermore, the American Medical Association, a President's Commission and almost every appellate court decision have agreed that artificial nutrition and hydration is a form of medical treatment that may be legally refused.

Whether or not tube-feeding is considered treatment is not up for debate. It is treatment.

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Thank you.

Finally, a logical statement!

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Posted by don424

nutrients don't keep you alive

i'm eating lunch in a few, is that gonna keep me alive?

no, i could drop dead of a massive heart attack tonight

ventilators keep you alive

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Are you at all familiar with how the human body functions?

Nutrients are fuel that assist the body in functioning from its most basic to its most complex level, they aren't medicine!

Not to mention this argument reinforces the remove-the-tube side.

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Posted by curliegirl

Monkey it's not worth it, she grasping at straws now....

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first of all, i am a 'he' not a 'she'

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Posted by don424

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Posted by curliegirl

Monkey it's not worth it, she grasping at straws now....

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first of all, i am a 'he' not a 'she'

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whatever...

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Posted by curliegirl

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Posted by don424

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Posted by curliegirl

Monkey it's not worth it, she grasping at straws now....

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first of all, i am a 'he' not a 'she'

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whatever...

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and as always i respect and thank you for your candid response

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Posted by don424

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Posted by curliegirl

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Posted by don424

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Posted by curliegirl

Monkey it's not worth it, she grasping at straws now....

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first of all, i am a 'he' not a 'she'

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whatever...

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and as always i respect and thank you for your candid response

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but you won't respond or support your statements about food and treatment, so just forget it and make another foolish statement

I have to go back to work anyway, thanks for getting me all fired up to make some $$$

best of luck in all of your endeavors

your fire and determination has earned my respect

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Posted by curliegirl

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Posted by don424

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Posted by curliegirl

Monkey it's not worth it, she grasping at straws now....

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first of all, i am a 'he' not a 'she'

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whatever...

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Posted by marymoon

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Posted by curliegirl

whatever...

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Was this really necessary?