Re: A nice debate for a Monday morning

hey this is the real world we live in

you do what it takes to survive

Re: A nice debate for a Monday morning

---

OK I steer clear of the political debates .. but all I want to say is that I cannot believe that all the folks I like on LIWs are METS FANS

---

Maybe this is a sign you should come to the other side

Re: A nice debate for a Monday morning

I posted in a thread last week about a documentary called FahrenHYPE 9-11 which disputes most everything in Fahrenheit 9-11 and kind of has a Republican bent to it - I would encourage people to see it just as people have seen Moore's movie. Not sure if that is the same one you are referring to.

It was very interesting and shed a lot of light on the falsities and propaganda of Moore's Anti-Bush film.

I do think it is going to be a tight race - I was undecided going in to this campaign but am now voting for Bush.

Re: A nice debate for a Monday morning

mets fans are the COOOOOLEST

Re: A nice debate for a Monday morning

I don't feel like spending $$ on farenhype 9/11, but I did check moore's factchecking and everything seems legit...I'm sure someone else could post anyswer to teh farenhype fi;m about why IT'S so wrong. but thanks for letting us know

Re: A nice debate for a Monday morning

---

Posted by marymoon

mets fans are the COOOOOLEST

---

Yeah you tell it!!

Re: A nice debate for a Monday morning

I am a voter in Florida and I will NOT be voting for BUSH! Many of my co-workers are the same way, I really don't think BUSH has the Florida vote in the bag. Bush visited a lot of places after the hurricanes in area's that he had the vote won already...he was no where near the area's where he could have swayed quite a few.
As to Jeb not being up north a whole lot these last few weeks...that is completely understandable! He is the governor of a state that has been hit by FOUR hurricane's! One which happened in the northern part of the state (he came, he saw, he helped when it happened) and the other three were in the Central/South region...Jeb is right where he belongs.
Just because they are brothers and are in the same party DOES NOT mean that Florida will be swayed. I have said in on this site before I hate the fact that my state and my federal government are run by the Bush Brothers....will I vote for Wubba...HELL NO! Would I vote for Jeb...Might think about it.
As for Kerry calling out Cheney's daughter...does not phase me in the least, if she wants to be part of a party and she wants to put herself in the public eye, then she is fair game..which is awesome, WOO HOO! Gay politics coming to the forefront of everyone's minds,I have to commmend her for that but you take the good with the bad...especially in the smear campaigs that have happened this year.
Do I even make sense? I don't know, its Monday morning and I have not had a cup of joe yet.

Re: A nice debate for a Monday morning

youdefinitely make sense!

I think the Cheney's daughter comment will blow over very soon. I think it already has for most people. I was sort of schoked at firts, but then I realized, it's not like she's just sitting hom watching TV, she's made herself part of the campaign, and I really don't think Kewrry was trying to do anything bad. He was trying to put a face on homosexuality. I think he really hit a home run in the debate on that issue and the abortion issue, Whether or not you agree with him, he was totally direct and answered the questions, unblike Dubya. I can't believe it..During the dbeates, Kerry was steadfast and stuck with his guns, and Bush was the wavering, wishy washy 'flip flopper'! I don't agree with everything Kerry said, especially his gradual rightward shift, but there's NO WAY I'm voting for Shrub.

Either way, i think the florida vote is really unpredicatable. There is cporruption, there are still problems, but I think there's been a HUGE effort to get out the vote in the black community, a huge sense that people don't want to be disenfranchised again, and I think that works in favor of John Kerry, but you really never know.

Re: A nice debate for a Monday morning

---

Posted by marymoon

mets fans are the COOOOOLEST

---

Uh ........ NOT

Re: A nice debate for a Monday morning

---

Posted by marymoon

He was trying to put a face on homosexuality.

---

Uh, and Mary Cheney is the ONLY person he could think of that's homosexual? Please . It was a slimy move, period. And, he was debating Bush, not Cheney!! If he were actually debating Cheney, I don't know that I would feel so disgusted but he wasn't. You don't hear Bush bringing up Kerry's daughter's t*ts that were hanging out on the red carpet when he talks about family values, do you?

Re: A nice debate for a Monday morning

---

Posted by FeliciaDA

---

Posted by marymoon

mets fans are the COOOOOLEST

---

Uh ........ NOT

---

OMG Felicia, you said it yourself, your favorite LIW people are MEt fans. You can't deny it!

When is the next classless GTG?

Re: A nice debate for a Monday morning

---

Posted by marymoon

I don't feel like spending $$ on farenhype 9/11, but I did check moore's factchecking and everything seems legit...I'm sure someone else could post anyswer to teh farenhype fi;m about why IT'S so wrong. but thanks for letting us know

---

i thought it was going to be on free TV

Re: A nice debate for a Monday morning

---

Posted by don424

---

Posted by marymoon

I don't feel like spending $$ on farenhype 9/11, but I did check moore's factchecking and everything seems legit...I'm sure someone else could post anyswer to teh farenhype fi;m about why IT'S so wrong. but thanks for letting us know

---

i thought it was going to be on free TV

---

You guys are talking about 2 different films. It's not Farenhype 9/11 that will be broadcast.

Re: A nice debate for a Monday morning

It is? I thought ti was just the Kerry swiftboat one. I don't think farenhype 9/11 can stand alone if you havent seen FH 9/11. Or maybe it can, I don't know

Re: A nice debate for a Monday morning

You dont need to spend a lot money on it - I rented it at Hollywood Video... yes I am not sure if this is the same movie but it is very interesting nonetheless. I saw both Moores and this one.

Moore uses a lot of theatrics to prove his points - its not necessarily facts.

One example if you remember in the Moore movie, he shows Bush giving a speech about the Haves, and Have Nots, joking that they are his base. So, after you see that scene you the viewer conclude this as Bush raising money for his campaign, giving a speech to his constituents and you cant believe he said that. What Moore fails to do is show the REST of the speech where Bush pokes more fun at himself because that speech was being given at Catholic Charity fundraiser in which Gore was also in attendance - and they were both poking fun at themselves.

Moore is very good at that kind of theatrics- he does it on a number of occasions to prove his points but it's not really the full truth. Like showing Bush meeting with Saudi leaders on a number of occasions - hello, ALL presidents meet with them - in the other movie you see pics of Clinton, Reagan, Carter - all the way to FDR meeting with Saudis.

Re: A nice debate for a Monday morning

Yeah, I definitely recognize that Moore edited his clips to show things the way he wanted to. I have the Fh 9/11 book whch I'm about to read, so that'll give more insight. (I'm a big fan of Moor, I love what he does). But I think at least with teh Saudis, Shrub has more personal ties with them than previous presidents, and that's what's scary.

I guess it boils down to the same thing as ANY documentary, any fi;m, any cmmerical, any news at all, you have to know what you're watching and be able to break it down and say 'ok, this si undisputed fact, this I'm not sure about, this is just propaganda', which most people don't. As Americans, we turn on the TV and just watch everything passively. I've definitely tried to actively seek all different sides. i read more election news than Mary Beth Cahill at this point. LOL

Re: A nice debate for a Monday morning

But does he have more ties to Saudis? Moore's movies makes you think so - the other movie proves Moore wrong. If Bush's family was really tied to Saudis, why is oil still going up and why are our allies Israel, not Iraq or Iran or Saudi ArabiA?

Moore also says that Bush took more vacations than other president but he also calculated weekends and Bush's time at Camp David where he was working (and even in Moore's film he shows a pic of Bush with Tony Blair at Camp David) Hello contradiction.

Anyway, I try to see both sides too - which is why I rented both movies and listen to both sides in the debates. But, I don't respect Moore at all - I think he disguises his movies as 'documentaries' with shoddy research and theatrics to further his own cause and he got very rich in the process.

Re: A nice debate for a Monday morning

www.electoral-vote.com is a pretty good site that gets updated everyday according to new poll numbers - as of today it has Kerry with 257 electoral votes and Bush with 247 - with Iowa and Florida exactly tied.

I think Bush will win Florida but I think Ohio (which electoral-vote.com has listed as 'barely Bush') is going to go to Kerry.

Iowa also traditionally votes democrat and I think it will go to Kerry.

It will be very close and we probably wont know the winner for days afterwards, but I'm saying that the buckeye state will bring it home for Kerry.

Re: A nice debate for a Monday morning

I'm going to see if Blockbuster has FarenHype 9/11, and then I'll watch it and discuss further!

I just think the polls are SO off right now because there are MILLIONS of new voters who are not included in these polls at all. Michael Moore himself has registered I think 30,000 new voters.

Re: A nice debate for a Monday morning

oh, and regarding Kerry's statement about Mary Cheney.

it was inappropriate and cringe worthy - I'm a true blue democrat and when he said her name in the debate I winced. But that being said, I think the public outrage over it is a bit of a smokescreen to take attention off of Bush. Of course Lynn and **** Cheney have a right to respond - they're parents, in addition to being public figures. But the constant attention this is getting in talk shows demonstrates (IMO) the desperation of the Republican party. If the election remains a referendum on Bush, I believe Kerry will win - if the election switches to a referendum on Kerry, then I think Bush will win.

With the flu shot epidemic and the allegation that Bush will privatize Social Security (see NY Times magazine for the complete story - this was a quote coming out of a closed door Bush policy meeting) I think the Mary Cheney story will disappear pretty soon.