something I think you should read about john kerry--LONG

Regardless of your political affiliations, many have been incensed at the accusations that John Kerry made about the conduct of those he said he served with in Viet Nam when he testified before the Senate many years ago. Those men who served with him are now finally speaking out. Comments below.

Subject: John Kerry's shipmates speak out

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'We resent very deeply the false war crimes charges he made coming back from Vietnam in 1971 and repeated in the book 'Tour of Duty.' We think those cast an aspersion on all those living and dead, from our unit and other units in Vietnam. We think that he knew he was lying when he made the charges, and we think that they're unsupportable. We intend to bring the truth about that to the American people.

We believe, based on our experience with him, that he is totally unfit to be the Commander-in-Chief.'

-- John O'Neill, spokesman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth .



'I do not believe John Kerry is fit to be Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces of the United States. This is not a political issue. It is a matter of his judgment, truthfulness, reliability, loyalty and trust -- all absolute tenets of command. His biography, 'Tour of Duty,' by Douglas Brinkley, is replete with gross exaggerations, distortions of fact, contradictions and slanderous lies. His contempt for the military and authority is evident by even a most casual review of this biography. He arrived in-country with a strong anti-Vietnam War bias and a self-serving determination to build a foundation for his political future. He was aggressive, but vain and prone to impulsive judgment, often with disregard for specific tactical assignments. He was a 'loose cannon.' In an abbreviated tour of four months and 12 days, and with his specious medals secure, Lt.(jg) Kerry bugged out and began his infamous betrayal of all United States forces in the! ! Vietnam War. That included our soldiers, our marines, our sailors, our coast guardsmen, our airmen, and our POWs. His leadership within the so-called Vietnam Veterans Against the War and testimony before Congress in 1971 charging us with unspeakable atrocities remain an undocumented but nevertheless meticulous stain on the men and women who honorably stayed the course. Senator Kerry is not fit for command.'

-- Rear Admiral Roy Hoffman, USN (retired), chairman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth .



'During Lt.(jg) Kerry's tour, he was under my command for two or three specific operations, before his rapid exit. Trust, loyalty and judgment are the key, operative words. His turncoat performance in 1971 in his grubby shirt and his medal-tossing escapade, coupled with his slanderous lines in the recent book portraying us that served, including all POWs and MIAs, as murderous war criminals, I believe, will have a lasting effect on all military veterans and their families.

Kerry would be described as devious, self-absorbing, manipulative, disdain for authority, disruptive, but the most common phrase that you'd hear is 'requires constant supervision.''

-- Captain Charles Plumly, USN (retired) .



'Thirty-five years ago, many of us fell silent when we came back to the stain of sewage that Mr. Kerry had thrown on us, and all of our colleagues who served over there. I don't intend to be silent today or ever again. Our young men and women who are serving deserve no less.'

-- Andrew Horne .



'In my specific, personal experience in both coastal and river patrols over a 12-month period, I never once saw or heard anything remotely resembling the atrocities described by Senator Kerry. If I had, it would have been my obligation to report them in writing to a higher authority, and I would certainly have done that. If Senator Kerry actually witnessed or participated in these atrocities or, as he described them, 'war crimes,' he was obligated to report them. That he did not until later when it suited his political purposes strikes me as opportunism of the worst kind. That he would malign my service and that of his fellow sailors with no regard for the truth makes him totally unqualified to serve as Commander-in-Chief.'

-- Jeffrey Wainscott .



'I signed that letter because I, too felt a deep sense of betrayal that someone who took the same oath of loyalty as I did as an officer in the United States Navy would abandon his group here (points to group photo) to join this group here (points to VVAW protest photo), and come home and attempt to rally the American public against the effort that this group was so valiantly pursuing.

It is a fact that in the entire Vietnam War we did not lose one major battle. We lost the war at home ... and at home, John Kerry was the Field General.'

-- Robert Elder .



'My daughters and my wife have read portions of the book 'Tour of Duty.' They wanted to know if I took part in the atrocities described. I do not believe the things that are described happened.

Let me give you an example. In Brinkley's book, on pages 170 to 171, about something called the 'Bo De massacre' on November 24th of 1968... In Kerry's description of the engagement, first he claimed there were 17 servicemen that were wounded. Three of us were wounded. I was the first...'

-- Joseph Ponder .



'While in Cam Rahn Bay, he trained on several 24-hour indoctrination missions, and one special skimmer operation with my most senior and trusted Lieutenant. The briefing from some members of that crew the morning after revealed that they had not received any enemy fire, and yet Lt.(jg) Kerry informed me of a wound -- he showed me a scratch on his arm and a piece of shrapnel in his hand that appeared to be from one of our own M-79s. It was later reported to me that Lt.(jg) Kerry had fired an M-79, and it had exploded off the adjacent shoreline. I do not recall being advised of any medical treatment, and probably said something like 'Forget it.' He later received a Purple Heart for that scratch, and I have no information as to how or whom.

Lt.(jg) Kerry was allowed to return to the good old USA after 4 months and a few days in-country, and then he proceeded to betray his former shipmates, calling them criminals who were committing atrocities. Today we are here to tell you that just the opposite is true. Our rules of engagement were quite strict, and the officers and men of Swift often did not even return fire when they were under fire if there was a possibility that innocent people -- fishermen, in a lot of cases -- might be hurt or injured. The rules and the good intentions of the men increased the possibility that we might take friendly casualties.'

-- Commander Grant Hibbard, USN (retired) .



'Lt. Kerry returned home from the war to make some outrageous statements and allegations... of numerous criminal acts in violation of the law of war were cited by Kerry, disparaging those who had fought with honor in that conflict. Had war crimes been committed by US forces in Vietnam? Yes, but such acts were few and far between. Yet Lt. Kerry have numerous speeches and testimony before Congress inappropriately leading his audiences to believe that what was only an anomaly in the conduct of America's fighting men was an epidemic. Furthermore, he suggested that they were being encouraged to violated the law of war by those within the chain of command.

Very specific orders, on file at the Vietnam archives at Texas Tech University, were issued by my father [Admiral Elmo Zumwalt] and others in his chain of command instructing subordinates to act responsibly in preserving the life and property of Vietnamese civilians.'

-- Lt. Col. James Zumwalt, USMC (retired) .



'We look at Vietnam... after all these years it is still languishing in isolated poverty and helplessness and tyranny. This is John Kerry's legacy. I deeply resent John Kerry's using his Swift boat experience, and his betrayal of those who fought there as a stepping-stone to his political ambitions.'

-- Barnard Wolff .



'In a whole year that I spent patrolling, I didn't see anything like a war crime, an atrocity, anything like that. Time and again I saw American fighting men put themselves in graver danger trying to avoid... collateral damage.

When John Kerry returned to the country, he was sworn in front of Congress. And then he told my family -- my parents, my sister, my brother, my neighbors -- he told everyone I knew and everyone I'd ever know that I and my comrades had committed unspeakable atrocities.'

-- David Wallace .



'I served with these guys. I went on missions with them, and these men served honorably. Up and down the chain of command there was no acquiescence to atrocities. It was not condoned, it did not happen, and it was not reported to me verbally or in writing by any of these men including Lt.(jg) Kerry.

In 1971, '72, for almost 18 months, he stood before the television audiences and claimed that the 500,000 men and women in Vietnam, and in combat, were all villains -- there were no heroes. In 2004, one hero from the Vietnam War has appeared, running for President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief. It just galls one to think about it.'

-- Captain George Elliott, USN (retired) .



'During the Vietnam War I was Task Force Commander at An Thoi, and my tour of duty was 13 months, from the end of Tet to the beginning of the Vietnamization of the Navy units.

Now when I went there right after Tet, I was restricted in my movements. I couldn't go much of anyplace because the Vietcong controlled most of the area. When I left, I could go anywhere I wanted, just about. Commerce was booming, the buses were running, trucks were going, the waterways were filled with sampans with goods going to market, but yet in Kerry's biography he says that our operations were a complete failure. He also mentions a formal conference with me, to try to get more air cover and so on. That conference never happened...'

-- Captain Adrian Lonsdale, USCG (retired).



'I was in An Thoi from June of '68 to June of '69, covering the whole period that John Kerry was there. I operated in every river, in every canal, and every off-shore patrol area in the 4th Corps area, from Cambodia all the way around to the Bo De River. I never saw, even heard of all of these so-called atrocities and things that we were supposed to have done.

This is not true. We're not standing for it. We want to set the record straight.'

-- William Shumadine.



'In 1971, when John Kerry spoke out to America, labeling all Vietnam veterans as thugs and murderers, I was shocked and almost brought to my knees, because even though I had served at the same time and same unit, I had never witnessed or participated in any of the events that the Senator had accused us of. I strongly believe that the statements made by the Senator were not only false and inaccurate, but extremely harmful to the United States' efforts in Southeast Asia and the rest of the world. Tragically, some veterans, scorned by the antiwar movement and their allies, retreated to a life of despair and suicide. Two of my crewmates were among them. For that there is no forgiveness. '

-- Richard O'Meara .



'My name is Steve Gardner. I served in 1966 and 1967 on my first tour of duty in Vietnam on Swift boats, and I did my second tour in '68 and '69, involved with John Kerry in the last 2 1/2 months of my tour. The John Kerry that I know is not the John Kerry that everybody else is portraying. I served alongside him and behind him, five feet away from him in a gun tub, and watched as he made indecisive moves with our boat, put our boats in jeopardy, put our crews in jeopardy... if a man like that can't handle that 6-man crew boat, how can you expect him to be our Commander-in-Chief?'

-- Steven Gardner .



'I served in Vietnam as a boat officer from June of 1968 to July of 1969. My service was three months in Coastal Division 13 out of Cat Lo, and nine months with Coastal Division 11 based in An Thoi. John Kerry was in An Thoi the same time I was. I'm here today to express the anger I have harbored for over 33 years, about being accused with my fellow shipmates of war atrocities.

All I can say is when I leave here today, I'm going down to the Wall to tell my two crew members it's not true, and that they and the other 49 Swiftees who are on the Wall were then and are still now the best.'

-- Robert Brant .



'I never saw, heard of, or participated in any Swift boat crews killing cattle, poisoning crops, or raping and killing civilians as charged by John Kerry, both in his book and in public statements. Since we both operated at the same time, in the same general area, and on the same missions under the same commanders, it is hard to believe his claims of atrocities and poor planning of Sea Lord missions.

I signed this letter because I feel that he used Swift boat sailors to proclaim his antiwar statements after the war, and now he uses the same Swift boat sailors to support his claims of being a war hero. He cannot have it both ways, and we are here to ask for full disclosure of the proof of his claims.'

-- James Steffes

Re: something I think you should read about john kerry--LONG

wow thats some poweful words.

And if it is true and not a politiacl move...then there really is no lesser of the evils between Kerry & Pres. Bush!

Re: something I think you should read about john kerry--LONG

But will Kerry's family be chumming it up with our supposed enemies? Hmm, I don't know. They both suck. Unfortunately, we'll be stuck with one of them.

Re: something I think you should read about john kerry--LONG

i dont think it was a political move just more of way to let people know that there are 2 sides to everything and you all heard kerrys side and this is the other side

Re: something I think you should read about john kerry--LONG

yes, these are all opinions, and if you check this out on snopes.com there are tons of praises for him too!!! take what you read with a grain of salt

Directly from snopes::

The important point to note here is that this piece presents only one side of the story:


Although the men quoted above are often identified as 'John Kerry's shipmates,' only one of them, Steven Gardner, actually served under Lt. Kerry's command on a Swift boat. The other men who served under Kerry's command continue to speak positively of him:

'In 1969, I was Sen. Kerry's gun mate atop of the Swift boat in Vietnam. And I just wanted to let everyone know that, contrary to all the rumors that you might hear from the other side, Sen. Kerry's blood is red, not blue. I know, I've seen it.

'If it weren't for Sen. John Kerry, on the 28th of February 1969, the day he won the Silver Star . . . you and I would not be having this conversation. My name would be on a long, black wall in Washington, D.C. I saw this man save my life.'3

— Fred Short

'I can still see him now, standing in the doorway of the pilothouse, firing his M-16, shouting orders through the smoke and chaos . . . Even wounded, or confronting sights no man should ever have to see, he never lost his cool.

I had to sit on my hands [after a firefight], I was shaking so hard . . . He went to every man on that boat and put his arm around them and asked them how they're doing. I've never had an officer do that before or since. That's the mettle of the man, John Kerry.'3

— David Alston

'What I saw back then [in Vietnam] was a guy with genuine caring and leadership ability who was aggressive when he had to be. What I see now is a guy who's not afraid to tackle tough issues. And he knows what the consequences are of putting people's kids in harm's way.'2

— James Wasser
Many of Kerry's Vietnam commanders and fellow officers also continue to speak positively of him:

Navy records, fitness reports by Kerry's commanders and scores of interviews with Swift boat officers and crewmen depict a model officer who fought aggressively in river ambushes and won the respect of many of his crewmates and commanders, even as his doubts about the war grew.

'I don't like what he said after the war,' said Adrian Lonsdale, who commanded Kerry for three months in 1969. 'But he was a good naval officer.'2


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'I don't know what conclusions you can draw about someone's ability to lead from their combat experience, but John's service was commendable,' said James J. Galvin, a former Swift boat officer . . . 'He played by the same rules we all did.'1
How well all of these men knew John Kerry is questionable, and discrepancies between how some of them described Kerry thirty-five years ago and how they describe him today suggest that their opinions are largely based upon political differences rather than objective assessments of Kerry's military record. For example, Rear Admiral Roy Hoffman is quoted above, yet the Los Angeles Times reported:

. . . Hoffman and Kerry had few direct dealings in Vietnam. A Los Angeles Times examination of Navy archives found that Hoffman praised Kerry's performance in cabled messages after several river skirmishes.1

Re: something I think you should read about john kerry--LONG

i agree there is a lot of praise for him but it seems that on LIW all you hear is praise and there are a lot of people who want to know boths sides

Re: something I think you should read about john kerry--LONG

Although I am a Bush supporter, I think it will be dangerous for him to criticize Kerry about his time in combat, considering Bush was never in combat.

Re: something I think you should read about john kerry--LONG

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Posted by kel2004

Although I am a Bush supporter, I think it will be dangerous for him to criticize Kerry about his time in combat, considering Bush was never in combat.

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Especially considering that the National Guard pay records are missing so there is no way to prove that he even showed up for service.

Yes, there are two sides to every story- but I still think Bush is an A-Hole. I think BUSH is the puppet of Karl Rove- so maybe not any better than the Puppet you Bush supporters will think Kerry is.

Re: something I think you should read about john kerry--LONG

It was already stated - after the 'shipmate's' quotes came out - that in fact, NONE of those men actually served WITH Kerry. None of those 'shipmate's' were, in fact, Kerry's shipmate.

The whole thing is BS...just as the email circulating about all the defense bills Kerry supposedly shot down. Snopes refuted the entire thing as bogus.

Re: something I think you should read about john kerry--LONG

I don't see what the big deal is. Kerry spoke out against Vietnam and those veterans hate him for it.

I have 2 uncles who were in Vietnam and they can't stand to hear anyone criticize it.

But we all know that A LOT of shady stuff went on there.

Re: something I think you should read about john kerry--LONG

and i think if you've actually SERVED in Vietnam, you have more of a right to protest it, since you KNOW what really went down there.

Re: something I think you should read about john kerry--LONG

Regardless if this is true, I read that Kerry only spent 4 mos in Vietnam - so why is he making this a huge part of his campaign? It was his decision to make it part of his campaign so he has to take the heat when people come out and say these types of negative things.

Bob Dole, a WW2 veteran was also a war hero but chose not to capitalize on that during his bid for president several yrs ago.....

How does 4 mos in Vietnam have anything to do with the war today? He served there, but then he formed a group against the war so essentially he abandoned his fellow soldiers in Vietnam....

I just dont get his whole Band of Brothers thing and how it will help his presidency esp since he was only there 4mos and when he came home, he turned his back on the war....

Re: something I think you should read about john kerry--LONG

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Posted by verdila

Regardless if this is true, I read that Kerry only spent 4 mos in Vietnam - so why is he making this a huge part of his campaign? It was his decision to make it part of his campaign so he has to take the heat when people come out and say these types of negative things.

Bob Dole, a WW2 veteran was also a war hero but chose not to capitalize on that during his bid for president several yrs ago.....

How does 4 mos in Vietnam have anything to do with the war today? He served there, but then he formed a group against the war so essentially he abandoned his fellow soldiers in Vietnam....

I just dont get his whole Band of Brothers thing and how it will help his presidency esp since he was only there 4mos and when he came home, he turned his back on the war....

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Well, I first have to say that 4 months is a lot longer then I have spent in any war. I would think that 4 months during war probably feels just as horrible as four months in hell. I think to trivialize over the amount of time someone spent in a war is alittle misguided.

I think that it was actually made a part of his campign for several reasons.

1. The war we are fighting in Iraq has been said to be the 'next Vietnam'.

2. The current President did not serve in Vietnam and it is questioned as to where he actually was during this period.

3. Kerry's service was going to come into question because he came home and protested the war.

4. I think it is also an issue because people right now want a strong leader and Kerry's service helps bolster( or is meant to) his image in that way.

It was not an issue in Dole's campaign because the country was not at war. It was also not made an issue by the other team beacause Clinton never served at all.

Re: something I think you should read about john kerry--LONG

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Posted by verdila

I just dont get his whole Band of Brothers thing and how it will help his presidency esp since he was only there 4mos and when he came home, he turned his back on the war....

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Try to consider the times in this as well... just about the entire nation turned their backs on the war!!! We are talking Vietnam here.... not WWII!!!

Re: something I think you should read about john kerry--LONG

I don't care ..anything is BETTER THAN BUSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: something I think you should read about john kerry--LONG

Funny how it comes out thirty years after the war and only months before the election.....

Also, even McCain has spoken out against these ads, and has criticized them as dishonest and misleading. On the news this morning, it was reported that while these men served in Vietnam - most were not even remotely close in proximity to Kerry, but are able to say they 'served with Kerry' because they all served in the military during Vietnam.

Re: something I think you should read about john kerry--LONG

You can compare the two military records HERE - Kerry & Bush.

Five months in Vietnam or not, he garnered 5 medals - 1 silver star, 1 bronze star and 3 purple hearts. I can't imagine what life is like in combat - the things you see and have to do...and then later justify. I would say he served 5 months too many in that war...along with everyone else (including my Uncle).

Re: something I think you should read about john kerry--LONG

You've read my post about this yesterday. I think it's all a bunch of BS form people get betrayed and angry when Kerry came back and protested the war. Well you know what, they cna shove it. John kerry is a man who is willing to fight for what he believes in

Re: something I think you should read about john kerry--LONG

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Posted by heidla

Well, I first have to say that 4 months is a lot longer then I have spent in any war. I would think that 4 months during war probably feels just as horrible as four months in hell. I think to trivialize over the amount of time someone spent in a war is alittle misguided.

I think that it was actually made a part of his campign for several reasons.

1. The war we are fighting in Iraq has been said to be the 'next Vietnam'.

2. The current President did not serve in Vietnam and it is questioned as to where he actually was during this period.

3. Kerry's service was going to come into question because he came home and protested the war.

4. I think it is also an issue because people right now want a strong leader and Kerry's service helps bolster( or is meant to) his image in that way.

It was not an issue in Dole's campaign because the country was not at war. It was also not made an issue by the other team beacause Clinton never served at all.

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I am not misguided at all - I know 4 mos is alot more than some people served, but I just find it a little funny that they are making this huge deal out of it when it was over 30 yrs ago - not to mention that he did come back from war and pretty much neglected his fellow soldiers there when he got to Senate.... in his democratic convention speech he flip flops all over the place - saying he will be tougher on terrorism than Bush, but then in the same breath, he will not bring us to an unjustified war, bla, bla. I think he is capitalizing on his 4 month service in war but its sort of funny because there are alot of Vietnam vets who dont like him at all for what he did 30 yrs ago - alot of that is true....look at his record.

Just because we werent in war at the time doesnt mean that Dole didnt need to bring to his campaign the fact that he was a WW2 war hero - he just didnt want to capitalize on it like Kerry is doing.

4. I think it is also an issue because people right now want a strong leader and Kerry's service helps bolster( or is meant to) his image in that way.

OK - he served 4 mos and got 3 purple hearts that he CONSTANTLY refers to (one for getting shot in the *** I think) and then came back and led the country against the war in Vietnam, pretty much making the war what it became here at home, a f'ng mess - thats the kind of man you want to lead our troops? Interesting.

I am not a Bush lover either but I think that both of these candidates are liars and its like choosing the lesser of two evils. Obviously, on LI weddings there are more Kerry supporters so anybody who challenges him is going to say they are misguided or what not, but I am just trying to present another side of the coin. Not to mention that if Kerry is elected, stock market is goign to tank again and taxes will get higher. He is also in favor or bringing back the marriage penalty tax.

Like I said, I am just trying to present another point of view than the prevailing one on LIW.

more food for thought:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=5468

And for some people concerned with their livelihoods - small businesses. This is very true: (one of my family members is a small bus owner and is very scared at what will happen to his business if Kerry gets elected)

Kerry tax record for small business:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1135193/posts

Re: something I think you should read about john kerry--LONG

There are great arguments for both sides. Being a Vet, I know that Kerry's medals may make him appear to be the better candidate and although he may be deserving of them. I do get annoyed when I see him capatalizing on it. But it doesnt make me think he is a better candidate than bush or an adequate leader...unless he was a general leading his troops.

I was in the military..I have seen them give medals to people who just happened to be at the right place at the right time.....does that make them heros yes and no...Yes for the ones who were in harms way the majority of time and somewhat for the ones who were in the back of the fight and could leave safely when the going got tough. So although I have respect for his 4 mths of service..I've got a whole lot more for those who stuck it out, those who died and those who are still reliving it each day..since mentally they never left.