Hey, a question for HR girls

When you're recruiting an MBA graduate, do you look at their major in the MBA program? Given prior Finance experience of about 5 yrs or more, would an MBA with General Management as a major with specialization in Finance be viewed negatively, when applying for Finance positions? Or would it not matter? And given the same experience, would you give a preference to a Columbia grad vs. a Stern NYU grad?

Re: Hey, a question for HR girls

Im not in HR but have worked in recruiting groups for ibanking dev programs.

I think it depends on the position you are applying for. If you want to be a quant arbitrage trader, the finance specification is going to be weighted more heavily. If you are a doing a less math heavy job, a general managment mba is going to suffice.

Not sure about the Columbia vs. NYU thing..that is hotly contested depending upon who you ask. I do know that the NYU part time program is not considered as substantial as their full time and many recruiters know that.

Re: Hey, a question for HR girls

Stef, I am interested in asset mgmt or may be research, shouldn't be too too quant heavy. I may also look into Treasury/Corp Finance positions in industrial companies (i.e. not banks).

I was only planning to apply to Stern's PT program, but wasn't quite as impressed by their presentation/staff/students as those of Columbia.
I also learnt there that for PT the only major available is General Mgmt, which isn't what I was looking for.

So now, I am expanding my application universe, and seriously considering applying to Columbia FT for early decision and Stern PT. If I get into Columbia, then oh boy, will the borrowing have to start!!!

Re: Hey, a question for HR girls

I think no matter what school you go to, the difference between the PT and FT program are huge! So you may want to look into Stern's FT program. Both are well respected and charge you a fortune.

A key factor you may want to consider is the company you would LIKE to work for post grad. Do they recruit at the school you will be attending? That is a huge thing!

What type of job are you looking for that you need your MBA?

I have a friend who is graduating from Columbia with her MBA this year and she is going to be making less than me! After I heard that, I re-evaluated the 'need' for an MBA. Of course, it would be nice to go for the educational value of it - but i dont know if I want to spend my life savings for a nice to have sort of thing.

I dont know if its because the market is really lousy or the need for MBA is just way down but the average salaries for MBA I was seeing just a few years ago has been drastically changed. Hopefully by the time you graduate, the market will be back and the salaries will rebound.

Re: Hey, a question for HR girls

Alina - are you sure about Stern's MBA PT program only being General Management? Unless we are talking about two different things, my DH has his masters from Stern in Finance and he went part time. He has several friends and co-workers in the program right now. I know they are re-vamping their program but that didn't sound right to me. If you have some specific questions, I can ask DH for you.

DH did participate with recruitment that NYU offered mba grads and even as a part-timer did get interviews with major companies (although he did say more of the full-timers did than part timers and many of the jobs were not geared towards people with his work experience-he is a cpa from Big Six (Five now) and is in finance already). He had interviews and call backs from CFSB, Bank of America. He decided to stay put at his current company. He also needed this mba (even with his creditals) to keep competitive in his field. But like Stef said, it depends what part of finance you enter into-I have friends with great jobs in Finance and don't think they need it for their areas.

Stef - interesting about that money thing and you friend. When DH graduated a little less than 2 years from Stern - he was telling me that full timers with little to no work experience were going to make as much or more than he was. I couldn't believe that could be the case. Anyway, he said with the economy the way it is grads are now coming out with false hopes. Also, I have heard more people are getting degrees. With such high unemployment/lay-off's, people have turned to grad school to give them the edge or to keep them busy. But now there are so many people with the credentials and less jobs. There was a great article in my computer mags. People have all these false hopes and are entering this harsh job market - it isn't like just 2 years ago!!!

Alina-I think you have two great options. Good Luck in what you choose.

Re: Hey, a question for HR girls

I was sort of 'lurking' on this discussion because I am in American U's part-time MBA program here in DC and debating whether or not to go back F/T and finish up. Any words of advice from the HR ladies out there...?

Re: Hey, a question for HR girls

Niecey, good advice and you're correct about you DH having a degree with Finance major. The whole rewamp that Stern did basically did away with majors PT program. And Stern has been somewhat sneaky about it. I downloaded the little viewbook and saw their website, and didnt see a mention of General Management as the only major. But then, at the presentation it was verbally stated and later I found it in a program broschure that was given out, that all 'Langone' program graduates will have an MBA with General Management as their major and students can choose to 'Specialize' in other fields, such as Finance/Marketing, etc. A specialization requires only 3 courses. So in essense, while nobody stops me from taking a 'major' worth of finance courses, it will not be officially stated so on the diploma. And I believe a specialization with 3 courses is 'BS', I don't think its enough for someone to quite say its a major.

An another more philosophical question that I don't get is why would Stern create a PT program in General Management, if its reputation is for its Finance program, not for its General Management program.

With regard to salaries, I am using last year's (2002) recruiting data as my guidance, which would already have factored in the effects of the economic downturn. I am hoping that my expectations aren't false. But then again, I am also happy where I am at now, which is a plus.

Re: Hey, a question for HR girls

Alison, I am not an HR person, but have looked FT programs.. I don't think most of them will accept you as a transfer student. I think the way it usually works is that you would apply as a new student, and then try to get required course waivers for the classes you took in PT program. But then you would still need to take the minimum # of credits to graduate, so you'll have more electives, but won't really graduate any earlier or save any $ with that... This info I have heard specifically at Columbia's presentation, but rumor is that other schools work the same way.

Re: Hey, a question for HR girls

bump

Re: Hey, a question for HR girls

that's really intersting. I told Dh about this last night and he told me all of our/his friends had graduated in January - so currently we don't know anyone still enrolled. He thinks it is stupid that the did away with Finance for PT. I want to talk to one of my co-workers because she was just talking to me and asking me about my DH's experience with Stern and his mba....I wonder if she knows...thanks.

Re: Hey, a question for HR girls

Unfortunately, I'm too far into the program to switch to a different FT program at this point. I've done 28 credits out of 51 and most schools would accept at very most 9 of those if I were to switch over. It's just not worth it to go back to square one. So, if I go back FT, it would have to be here at American. Do you think that's worthwhile, or better to stick it out PT?

Re: Hey, a question for HR girls

Alison, do you like your current job and would you be interested in staying in it/proceeding? Are part-timers allowed to participated in FT recruiting? Are you paying for the PT or is it reimbursable through your current job? If it is reimbursable, how long do you have to stay at your company following graduation, so that you don't have to repay the tuition back to the company? How much income would you be losing if you go full time and what are the salaries that FT graduates get after their graduation relative to your current income? Can you take on more classes through the PT program to accelerate how fast you finish it?

I think if you answer these questions for yourself, it may make it easier for you to make a decision...
Assuming you're not trying to switch fields drastically, it may make more sense to stick around for the PT. At most it will be 2 years, and you will not be giving up your income.

But if you want to switch fields, I wonder if finishing up FT will give you the edge, b/c judging by the # of credits you have you would be a 2nd year student at FT program without the intership experience in the field you want to enter... I don't know how strong of a job candidate you would then be to the recruiters...

Re: Hey, a question for HR girls

Good questions, and I've thought about many of them.

My current job pays for my education...it's tuition remission, so it doesn't require that I stay any length of time after I'm done with the degree. I enjoy what I do but know it's not the end-all and be-all for me, plus there's probably not a lot of opportunity for advancement. So I am definitely exploring other fields and part of the reason I am considering going back FT is to give myself the time to figure that out as well as pursue some sort of internship in a new area to see if that's really what I want to do, not to mention give me an 'in' should I decide to go that route for a real job. From what you're saying, it sounds like the internship experience is pretty much required anyway, for employers to consider a FT student seriously, is that right?

In this economy, though, you're also right that it's hard to rationalize giving up a salary AND tuition benefits. On the other hand, I have zero flexibility to do things like participate in recruiting events while I am working here and doing school PT and I've actually run into problems even with getting school-related correspondence during the day (pretty ironic, considering that I work at the school!). So I'd have more opportunity to pursue those avenues as a FT student, whereas I can't do that now. Which makes me wonder if I'll just end up staying here after I get the MBA, just because I never had time to explore those other options...

Hmm. I guess there could be worse things, since I don't dislike my job entirely (there are certainly things which frustrate me and I'd like to be earning more $$), but then I wonder what did I do the degree for, if not to put it to use to advance myself...

Big decisions here. I have more thinking to do.

Re: Hey, a question for HR girls

Alison:
About 0 flexibility of participation in recruiting events, aren't most of them held between the hours of like 5-9 or so? That's how it was during my undergrad days and from my understanding it works similarly for grad school...

So you may not be able to go to company's presentations on the days when you have classes, which is probably like 2 days/week, but can do that stuff on the days of no class, right? Does your company have other divisions for which you may be interested in working? That may be something to look into and network your way in.

As to the intership requirement, basically, if you're switching fields, an internship is your way in... If you're staying in the same/related field, then you're ok without on. From personal experience, having gone abroad during my 2nd semester of junior year, and not getting the more coveted finance internships during the following summer has hurt me during the undergraduate recruiting.
While my first job out of college provided a great learning opportunity in the field of finance, it certainly was somewhat underpaid relative to other options that I may have had if I did have a finance internship the summer before my senior year.

Re: Hey, a question for HR girls

Another piece of info to think about. I received this from my former college career counselor about going to PT Stern vs. FT Columbia, after writing a pretty detailed and long letter about my current career:

'As to what you should do in terms of graduate school, I'd start by saying that I truly wonder if you really need an MBA. the gilt is off that lily
to a great degree, and people who are doing well in their careers can continue to do well without an MBA. Right now, in this economy, an MBA,
even from a top top school, does not guarantee employment. I had a phone call yesterday from an alum of the Class of 98, who worked for 3 years at
DLJ, is now a second year at HBS, and cannot find a job. Her goal was to leave finance, but she can't even find a finance job. So there's no guarantee that getting a degree from Columbia will 'advance' your career. I also don't believe that Columbia's reputation is *so* much greater than Stern's, and to have XYZ company pay for the Stern degree, and to have at least some assurance that you'll have a job to go to, seems a *big* plus. I'm not concerned that the program is management focused - in the end, you'll have an MBA from Stern, and that will be that.

There's no doubt that at some point in the future the economy will recover, but whether banking will be the 'hot' item it was in the late 90's is anyone's guess. And at this moment, I'd probably opt to stay at XYZ (after all, you seem to like the people, and your job), which means that if you want an MBA, it would have to be the part-time at Stern'

Re: Hey, a question for HR girls

That's good advice, and similar to what I am going through.

As for the recruiting events, sadly, no, they are almost always between the hours of 9 and 5, not the other way around, which is why I have no flexibility to attend them. The school I attend can't seem to decide whether they want to be a FT or PT program, so they pretty much hurt both types of students in the process...

Re: Hey, a question for HR girls

Allison, how can recruiting events be during the daytime, then don't the daytimers have to miss classes to attend them, and thus not everyone will have an opportunity to meet company reps... This is really bizzarre. I hope they'll get it fixed soon. Is there a way to get the student gov't involved to make the recruiting events more accessible for part-timers? At least the info sessions, if not the interviews.

Re: Hey, a question for HR girls

That is my crusade! But no one seems to be listening.

Re: Hey, a question for HR girls

In my experience of recruiting, some firms hold cocktail party like recruiting events which are held in the evenings...but most firms recruit during the day since thats when the recruiters work.

Re: Hey, a question for HR girls

I think my post above referred to the cocktail parties. After Stef's post, I went to wharton's website, and looked at the recruiting schedule...

Most of the presentations again were in the evening, but I guess it differs by school... Something to keep in mind if I decide to to the PT thing... Also, the recruiters holding these presentations are not the headhunting guys but rather employees of the respective firms.

I agree that the career fairs are usually held during the workdays.