Re: Bill Mahr on President Bush...I know this has been a touchy subject lately

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Posted by neeniebean86

if Bush farts, its in the newspaper. i really dont think the media is covering up much for him, or that theyre being bullied by him and his administration- like malbert said, i think its quite the opposite. so i'm not really sure what your response meant? (i dont mean that snotty i really dont understand what you were trying to say with that?)

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when 9/11 happened no one DARED to criticize the administration because it was deemed 'unpatriotic' (which i find ludicrous), then there were no WMD's, questionable treatment of prisoners, now the fiasco with the hurricane, how many things have to go wrong before something is said and done? that's what i was getting at .

i just think there is a lot more we don't know. i personally dry heave at anything bush related. it's not a republican/democrat thing, i just find his mannerisms and 'leadership' disingenuous and unappealing.

Re: Bill Mahr on President Bush...I know this has been a touchy subject lately

Just a quick factoid: Did you know before the military could go to NO they had to go to an 8 hour sensitivity course? I just found this out!

Re: Bill Mahr on President Bush...I know this has been a touchy subject lately

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Posted by Beth1210

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Posted by nov04LIbride

I just read that Halliburton (formerly run by Vice President **** Cheney) received a $29.8 million clean-up contract.

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why am I not surprised- and they also don't have to pay a fair wage- they can go below minium wage

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And yet- that isn't all over the news....

I think one would be hard pressed to find a presidential administration that financially benefited more than this administration....

and yet- Bush supporters still point fingers and put up the smoke screen and b!tch and how the media is so liberal (which really isn't that true- most major media outltets are owned by Republican supporters).

the fact of the matter is every single horrible thing that happened in this country from 9/11 to Iraq to now New Orleans has benefitted the rich and scr3wed the poor..

bush and his friends want to ruin this government's social programs- they want to spend so much money that programs like social security, welfare and medicare are no longer possible b/c we will be so far in the red there will be no choice to end them.

One everything- and i mean everything- is on the 'free market' he'll be happy.

He's un-American and he is not REALLY into democracy- he's into getting himself and his friends rich...

and until I can have a real conversation with a bush supporter about these things- what they REALLY think and not what Fox news TOLD them to think- then maybe I'll think that bush supporters really know the type of man they support...

Until then- I think that they (bush supporters) got duped... they aren't to blame- but they certainly are victims of an adminstration that played on heartstrings and fear....

As an aside- about 3-4 weeks ago i saw on the Today show they had 2 mothers. Both had lost sons in Iraq- it was very sad. One mother was very against the war and basically felt that her son's life was spent without sound reason. The other mother felt the opposite.. Well- the woman that supported Bush said that she knew that there were WMD in Iraq. Mind you- this is after almost everyone (so I thought) in the country knew that Iraq didn't have WMD- and she is still saying, 'my son is in iraq b/c they have WMD'.. so yes- i think a lot of the Bush supporters out there still think things that are untrue!

Re: Bill Mahr on President Bush...I know this has been a touchy subject lately

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Posted by JPC1125

God I LOVE Bill Maher!!!

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I actually CANT STAND HIM!!!!!

Re: Bill Mahr on President Bush...I know this has been a touchy subject lately

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Posted by Sassyz75

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Posted by Beth1210

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Posted by nov04LIbride

I just read that Halliburton (formerly run by Vice President **** Cheney) received a $29.8 million clean-up contract.

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why am I not surprised- and they also don't have to pay a fair wage- they can go below minium wage

---

And yet- that isn't all over the news....

I think one would be hard pressed to find a presidential administration that financially benefited more than this administration....

and yet- Bush supporters still point fingers and put up the smoke screen and b!tch and how the media is so liberal (which really isn't that true- most major media outltets are owned by Republican supporters).

the fact of the matter is every single horrible thing that happened in this country from 9/11 to Iraq to now New Orleans has benefitted the rich and scr3wed the poor..

bush and his friends want to ruin this government's social programs- they want to spend so much money that programs like social security, welfare and medicare are no longer possible b/c we will be so far in the red there will be no choice to end them.

One everything- and i mean everything- is on the 'free market' he'll be happy.

He's un-American and he is not REALLY into democracy- he's into getting himself and his friends rich...

and until I can have a real conversation with a bush supporter about these things- what they REALLY think and not what Fox news TOLD them to think- then maybe I'll think that bush supporters really know the type of man they support...

Until then- I think that they (bush supporters) got duped... they aren't to blame- but they certainly are victims of an adminstration that played on heartstrings and fear....

As an aside- about 3-4 weeks ago i saw on the Today show they had 2 mothers. Both had lost sons in Iraq- it was very sad. One mother was very against the war and basically felt that her son's life was spent without sound reason. The other mother felt the opposite.. Well- the woman that supported Bush said that she knew that there were WMD in Iraq. Mind you- this is after almost everyone (so I thought) in the country knew that Iraq didn't have WMD- and she is still saying, 'my son is in iraq b/c they have WMD'.. so yes- i think a lot of the Bush supporters out there still think things that are untrue!

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I'm a highly educated Bush Supporter. I receive news from other sources then Fox.

How has 9/11 benefited the rich and scr@wed the poor? How has Iraq directed benefited the rich? Please explain.

As far as social programs...Social Security has been in trouble since the Carter administration. It isn't something new. This is also the case for Medicare. Healthcare has been in a tailspin from the Reagan Administration. Welfare and social services are handled by local and state governments. The federal government only helps financially.

Did you see the presidential address on Thursday? The speech and commitment that Pres. Bush gave to the survivors and victims of the hurricane was a very 'left' wing promise. Not since the New Deal, FDR, has a president promised that much to socially benefit the American population.

Re: Bill Mahr on President Bush...I know this has been a touchy subject lately

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Posted by Sassyz75
And yet- that isn't all over the news....

I think one would be hard pressed to find a presidential administration that financially benefited more than this administration....

and yet- Bush supporters still point fingers and put up the smoke screen and b!tch and how the media is so liberal (which really isn't that true- most major media outltets are owned by Republican supporters).

the fact of the matter is every single horrible thing that happened in this country from 9/11 to Iraq to now New Orleans has benefitted the rich and scr3wed the poor..

bush and his friends want to ruin this government's social programs- they want to spend so much money that programs like social security, welfare and medicare are no longer possible b/c we will be so far in the red there will be no choice to end them.

One everything- and i mean everything- is on the 'free market' he'll be happy.

He's un-American and he is not REALLY into democracy- he's into getting himself and his friends rich...

and until I can have a real conversation with a bush supporter about these things- what they REALLY think and not what Fox news TOLD them to think- then maybe I'll think that bush supporters really know the type of man they support...

Until then- I think that they (bush supporters) got duped... they aren't to blame- but they certainly are victims of an adminstration that played on heartstrings and fear....

As an aside- about 3-4 weeks ago i saw on the Today show they had 2 mothers. Both had lost sons in Iraq- it was very sad. One mother was very against the war and basically felt that her son's life was spent without sound reason. The other mother felt the opposite.. Well- the woman that supported Bush said that she knew that there were WMD in Iraq. Mind you- this is after almost everyone (so I thought) in the country knew that Iraq didn't have WMD- and she is still saying, 'my son is in iraq b/c they have WMD'.. so yes- i think a lot of the Bush supporters out there still think things that are untrue!

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If you dislike Bush- thats completely fine- thats your perogative/opinion and you're entitled to it. But, by making rash and sweeping generalizations about Bush supporters- you're making it Personal, and, really, not showing your intelligence at all.

Recently, i've had many 'debates' on this site regarding these issues, and i can honestly say that i have enjoyed them all. They were Mature, informative, and engaging. I haven't agreed with what other people said, but i respected their thoughts and opinions on the topic at hand (as well as the passion they had for it). I also haven't ever tried to change anyone's opinions on Bush- OR made comments doubting their intelligence b/c of their views. Theyre just different than mine, and i respect that. But, i think its very self rightgeous of you to consider yourself the almighty enlightened one, and look down on the 'intelligence level' of bush SUPPORTERS. Like i said, its one thing to dislike the man and say things about him- its another to make comments about the people that support him.

and on a side note- i NEVER even watch Fox news

Re: Bill Mahr on President Bush...I know this has been a touchy subject lately

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Posted by julybride44

Our president is neither a leader nor a decent human being....how can anyone think otherwise? Are they all just sitting around being spoonfed Fox News? Do they know any history or economics or political science, or hell even science for that matter?

It's just crazy!

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You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I'm extremely educated and versed in Economics and Polititcal Science. What am I being spoon fed? My source of intellectual news in not that of Primetime News casts. They are news but more importantly, they are businesses that survive on ratings. TV stations are businesses looking to make a profit - that is their first priority.

It isn't for you to judge people based on their political preferences or to insult their intelligence because of such. Our country was founded on the very principle that people will have different opinions and views.

I'm not looking to debate with you on whether or not President Bush is a decent person - that isn't for me to decide. I would like to know why the democrates have veto the bill introduced that would have indexed AMT and certain floors for inflation. Maybe you can help me figure out why AMT and floors and ceilings in the IRS code are not being indexed because of the democrates in congress.

US News and World report did a piece of the soliders that have died in the Iraq war. Pres. Bush visits army bases and meets with the families of fallen military personnel. It was very interesting the varies stories and how the families differed in opinions about the war in the President. It was touching and a 'bit' more in depth then a 3 minutes spot on the Today Show.

Re: Bill Mahr on President Bush...I know this has been a touchy subject lately

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Posted by neeniebean86

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Posted by Sassyz75
And yet- that isn't all over the news....

I think one would be hard pressed to find a presidential administration that financially benefited more than this administration....

and yet- Bush supporters still point fingers and put up the smoke screen and b!tch and how the media is so liberal (which really isn't that true- most major media outltets are owned by Republican supporters).

the fact of the matter is every single horrible thing that happened in this country from 9/11 to Iraq to now New Orleans has benefitted the rich and scr3wed the poor..

bush and his friends want to ruin this government's social programs- they want to spend so much money that programs like social security, welfare and medicare are no longer possible b/c we will be so far in the red there will be no choice to end them.

One everything- and i mean everything- is on the 'free market' he'll be happy.

He's un-American and he is not REALLY into democracy- he's into getting himself and his friends rich...

and until I can have a real conversation with a bush supporter about these things- what they REALLY think and not what Fox news TOLD them to think- then maybe I'll think that bush supporters really know the type of man they support...

Until then- I think that they (bush supporters) got duped... they aren't to blame- but they certainly are victims of an adminstration that played on heartstrings and fear....

As an aside- about 3-4 weeks ago i saw on the Today show they had 2 mothers. Both had lost sons in Iraq- it was very sad. One mother was very against the war and basically felt that her son's life was spent without sound reason. The other mother felt the opposite.. Well- the woman that supported Bush said that she knew that there were WMD in Iraq. Mind you- this is after almost everyone (so I thought) in the country knew that Iraq didn't have WMD- and she is still saying, 'my son is in iraq b/c they have WMD'.. so yes- i think a lot of the Bush supporters out there still think things that are untrue!

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If you dislike Bush- thats completely fine- thats your perogative/opinion and you're entitled to it. But, by making rash and sweeping generalizations about Bush supporters- you're making it Personal, and, really, not showing your intelligence at all.

Recently, i've had many 'debates' on this site regarding these issues, and i can honestly say that i have enjoyed them all. They were Mature, informative, and engaging. I haven't agreed with what other people said, but i respected their thoughts and opinions on the topic at hand (as well as the passion they had for it). I also haven't ever tried to change anyone's opinions on Bush- OR made comments doubting their intelligence b/c of their views. Theyre just different than mine, and i respect that. But, i think its very self rightgeous of you to consider yourself the almighty enlightened one, and look down on the 'intelligence level' of bush SUPPORTERS. Like i said, its one thing to dislike the man and say things about him- its another to make comments about the people that support him.

and on a side note- i NEVER even watch Fox news

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Well- I certainly didn't name call... but I supposed when I see those middle-of-America 'Bush Supporters' who still- to this day- rally around the whole WMD-Iraq arguement- it seems to ME that they were duped- how else could they STILL be insisting something be true even after their leader said it wasn't...

Again- I have not found ONE Bush supporter that has been able to have a real intellectual discussion with me regarding the cronyism/Halliburton situation- that always seems to get overlooked... actually- I have no idea why people still even support Bush at all- besides the whole patriotic waving the flag thing- which really isn't a reason.

Bush supporters don't love America any more than any other type of supporter.

Edited to say:

How 9/11 screwed the poor- it was another reason for Bush to push through tax policy that benefits the rich over the poor. Two or three weeks ago studies were released that show that more people live under the poverty line now (and this was pre-Katrina) than last year...

Yes- Bush made 'left-wing-style promises' regarding Katrina- however he is suspending wage laws to get it done AND he isn't going to raise taxes to pay for it.

It's a very simple economic assumption really- it holds true for people AND governments: in order to be in good economic health- what comes in (taxes) needs to be more than what goes out (expenditures)- in the past 5 years this economic certainty has gone out the window.. By God- at least democrats would raise taxes to pay for those lefty- Katrina-clean-up programs...

And that comes to my Social Security/Medicare point: yes- the program HAS been in trouble. However, the situation grows even more dire as the totality of our Nation's economic health grows worse. What do I mean by that? The more and more the President gets us into debt- the less we'll be able to handle in the way of social safety net programs. Social Security money collected out of payroll checks is not a 'trust' - it isn't kept under lock & key until paid out in SS benefits. Some of it is used to pay out SS benefits- and the rest, while credited to the SS program is spent in other non-safety net government programs- say, to make up the money we now don't have due to all those tax cuts- or the Iraq war- or even Katrina reconstruction.
SS program has had program short falls before, which were corrected by a period of payroll tax increases. A lot of economists see the crisis with SS and other like programs to be more a function of Bush's low revenue and high spending.

Re: Bill Mahr on President Bush...I know this has been a touchy subject lately

Let me just give you a basic understanding of the Social Security System. In the Social Security system, the money you pay into the system gets immediately paid back out to the people who are currently getting Social Security checks. This arrangement came into being because of the way the system started. In 1935, when Roosevelt signed the Social Security Act into law, there were a lot of people who needed benefits (because of the Great Depression), but there was no money to pay those benefits with. The idea at the time was that people currently working would pay into the system and their money would immediately go back out in the form of benefit checks. Each generation of retiring workers would get paid by the people currently working, and therefore the system would fund itself forever despite the fact that the system had no money to start with.

You might have heard that the Social Security system currently takes in more money than it pays out in order to try to handle the baby boomer problem. What happens with the excess money the system collects? The Social Security system buys U.S. Treasury bonds with the surplus. Essentially, the government (in the form of the Social Security Administration) loans the surplus to itself.
In future decades, when it comes time to start drawing on the collected surplus, the government will pay itself back through tax revenue (or additional borrowing). The Social Security system will start cashing in the bonds, and the government will have to make good on them with tax revenue. That sounds weird because it is weird -- Whether or not it will work is a source of significant debate right now. The effect it will have is that it will shift the payment of Social Security benefits over to the government as a whole. The government as a whole, rather than the Social Security system, will have to repay the treasury bonds that the Social Security system will be cashing in. It will certainly be interesting to see what happens
Social Security is WHOLELY FUNDED by the Social Security and Medicare taxes taken as tax. The Social Security system is not subsidized by general taxes or the power of the Federal Government to tax.

Marginal tax rates may have been lowered but taxes weren’t. The IRS will increase floors, eliminate deductions and credits and lower ceilings. The marginal tax rate doesn’t have to be increased to increase taxes. It is done in a lot of ways. Were you affected this past year by AMT? The once duel taxation system to help close the loophole of wealthy tax payers using credits and deductions to lower their income tax to barely nothing now effects most middle income tax payers due to it not being indexed for inflation. So, basically if you earn more then $45,000 a year and own property in NYS, you pay a MUCH higher tax. The democratic have vetoed changing AMT.

As far as the economics, you must realize that economics on a whole moves in a cyclical pattern. There’s a trough, a recovery, and top and a downslide. Regardless of who is in power, this is how the economy and business cycles move.

As far as Halliburton, I have to look further into that. Just keep in mind, Congress/ House Ways and Means Committee awarded this contract….not the President or the Vice President. You seem to have forgotten that Congress is the only arm of the Federal Government that can award contracts and spend federal money.