Re: Contraversial topic so be prepared...

---

Posted by Brandalina

---

Posted by matron

And, to take this one step further, yes, I am against animal testing even if it is for the prevention of diseases because animal research will not get us anywhere. Do your research.

---

Do you have more info on this you could FM me? I'd just like to learn more because my life has been touched by someone with a chronic illness who is being helped by medication that was tested on animals. I like to know both sides of the story. Thanks!

---

Brendalina, I'll FM you later (I'm on the way to a party for the 4th) but for now, visit www.pcrm.com. You may get a lot of great info here. I also suggest taking a book written by Neal Barnard MD out of the library. More later ....

Re: Contraversial topic so be prepared...

I don't know if i would call myself a full out vegetarian BUT i just DON'T LIKE meat

It has nothing really to do with animals

i eat chicken but that is about it

Re: Contraversial topic so be prepared...

---

Posted by matron
hey fashionhag: visit http://www.jesusveg.com/

---

LOL! I have seen that site before. We had a discussion about it in a class of mine about myths and religion. Whomever wrote that site took a lotof liberties with the bible, (and I am not sure which bible they used) becuase there are a few quotes on that site that aren't in the bible and many words have been switched around. I wouldn't use that site as a reference point.

Re: Contraversial topic so be prepared...

---

Posted by fashionhag

Re: vegetarians being healthier than those who eat meat...

I do not believe that this has been proven. Vegetarians do not live longer than those who have good eating habits and eat meat.

I am in the belief that animals were put on this planet to be used as food and as clothing. Jesus ate meat and wore sheepskin. Hey, if it's god enough for God, who the hell am I to say that is isn't good enough for me. LOL!

I find that that world is full of hypocrits (in all parts of life) and I have a big problem with those people. I have seen people who are vegetarians for health reasons that smoke or drink obsessively (actually drinking one glass of wine with a meal has been proven to be good for you-it opens the digestive tract and allows for better food digestion). But like someone else said, there are people who claim to be Christians and still they are having sex before marraige, or they steal or do other things that are against the Christian faith.

---

Jesus did not have the luxury of the range of food and clothing that is available in our country today. He did not have a choice--he needed meat to nourish himself, and he needed animal skin to clothe himself. We no longer need these things because we have created synthetic fibers for clothing, and we have a wider range of food options so that we can survive without eating meat.

There are areas of the world where they still live off the land and they DO need to eat meat and wear animal skin as clothing. But they do not breed animals for this purpose and have factories and machines devoted to breeding, killing, and milking animals.

There is a big difference between our society today and the technologies and choices we now have vs. the society in which Jesus lived.

Re: Contraversial topic so be prepared...

---

Posted by Brandalina

Jesus did not have the luxury of the range of food and clothing that is available in our country today. He did not have a choice--he needed meat to nourish himself, and he needed animal skin to clothe himself. We no longer need these things because we have created synthetic fibers for clothing, and we have a wider range of food options so that we can survive without eating meat.

There are areas of the world where they still live off the land and they DO need to eat meat and wear animal skin as clothing. But they do not breed animals for this purpose and have factories and machines devoted to breeding, killing, and milking animals.

There is a big difference between our society today and the technologies and choices we now have vs. the society in which Jesus lived.

---

That has nothing to do with my point. I am saying that I am not going to go and say that I am too good to eat meat when Jesus, the son of God ate meat. I mean, who the hell am I to say that?

Society has changed a lot. But that doesn't mean its all better. You have 12 year olds having sex. We have AIDS, Herpes, Cancer and all sorts of terrific things that we didn't have in Jesus' time. But that has NOT A THING to do with my point.

Re: Contraversial topic so be prepared...

---

Posted by fashionhag

---

Posted by Brandalina

Jesus did not have the luxury of the range of food and clothing that is available in our country today. He did not have a choice--he needed meat to nourish himself, and he needed animal skin to clothe himself. We no longer need these things because we have created synthetic fibers for clothing, and we have a wider range of food options so that we can survive without eating meat.

There are areas of the world where they still live off the land and they DO need to eat meat and wear animal skin as clothing. But they do not breed animals for this purpose and have factories and machines devoted to breeding, killing, and milking animals.

There is a big difference between our society today and the technologies and choices we now have vs. the society in which Jesus lived.

---

That has nothing to do with my point. I am saying that I am not going to go and say that I am too good to eat meat when Jesus, the son of God ate meat. I mean, who the hell am I to say that?

Society has changed a lot. But that doesn't mean its all better. You have 12 year olds having sex. We have AIDS, Herpes, Cancer and all sorts of terrific things that we didn't have in Jesus' time. But that has NOT A THING to do with my point.

---

Nobody said they were better than Jesus.

Re: Contraversial topic so be prepared...

---

Posted by sweetadeline

---

Posted by oct.2004bride

Well personally i have to say that to those Vegans/vegetarians who feel it is morally wrong to eat a animal (hey fish are in this sense of the word are animals too!) and if you wear and or use leather products...well then i think that is pretty cheesy and hypcritical. And the fact that you say that you are morally against eating another thing but are certainly ok about wearing its skin or fur to make life easier for you well...then you lose ALL credibility in my eyes.

---

Judging by this logic, pretty much every single person in the world is some kind of hypocrite. Every person who claims to be a 'good Christian' and occasionally says 'Jesus Christ!' when someone cuts her off on the expressway is taking the lord's name in vain, and is therefore a hypocrite. Every doctor who has a few glasses of wine with dinner is a hypocrite. Every dentist who decides to skip flossing once in a while is a hypocrite -- dentists are constantly telling US to floss every day, so they should have to floss every day, right?

I can't disagree: everyone I know could be considered a hypocrite in one way or another. I could certainly be considered a hypocrite.

My point is this: humans are not perfect. No one has perfect, unassailable credibility. So maybe... just maybe... there's a certain amount of pointlessness to judging other people as hypocrites.

Is judging other people as hypocrites an important and useful thing to do? If so, why? I'm not asking this question to be obnoxious. This is a serious question. For example, I can envision certain circumstances where looking for serious instances of hypocrisy might be important -- when deciding which candidate one would prefer to support with a vote, for instance. Then again, every candidate is a hypocrite in one way or another, so...

---

I agree!

Re: Contraversial topic so be prepared...

Look up rennet in the dictionary. Now lick your lips as you taste the mozerrella cheese on your pizza. Yes, you are ingesting the lining of a cow's stomach.

Not grossed out?


why are you trying to gross me out?? you have your belifs and i have no reason to go aganist what you say, but don't push what you belief on me. i am not a vegetraian or vegan, i eat deef, drink milk and take medications that may or may not have been created by testing on animals. you are entitled to your opinion, but don't telll me how i should live my life....

Re: Contraversial topic so be prepared...

Bringing up Christianity... Jesus came because we are 'hypocrits' and do the wrong thing sometimes. ALso, those that are lost and not following docterine regularly and not repenting need to work that out themselves. I am Christian, I make mistakes, feel bad about it, and then try to not make that mistake again. Also, i do not have sex outside of marraige though I used to :)

I am growing weary of this because there is a whole lot of pointing fingers and not looking within. Stop being mad that people are making you feel bad (if that is the case) and do somethng about it within. If you want to know why someone has a life style, listen, try to understand, don't just keep on with your original assesment when people have been saying over and over again the opposite.

I really hope all of you find peace.

Now, back to being a bride and not worrying about all this.

PS I am on my way to a fourth of july party at my MOH's house to eat non-meat products while other do and I will not be forcing them to feel the way I do or freaking out. And you know what? MOH is eating vegan cake at my wedding (and she loves meat and dairy). But she loves me!

Re: Contraversial topic so be prepared...

ALL VEGGIE girls that are soooo upset about the way animals are treated/harvested for their milk...
DO YOU WEAR OR OWN LEATHER PRODUCTS?????

If you are going to say YES to that then all your inhumane arguments about milk are BS! Don't sit there and say how horrible cows are treated to get their milk when there is alot worse that goes on for their fur and animal testing for human diseases!

Re: Contraversial topic so be prepared...

---

Posted by Darcy

The worst is that my coat is made of wool (no killing involved) because my father was buying, being impatient, and I really needed a new coat.

---

OH an i am sure those animals weren't harvested for their wool right?!

And the fact that you really needed that coat went above your ethics of animla cruelty huh?

Re: Contraversial topic so be prepared...

---

Posted by oct.2004bride

---

Posted by Darcy

The worst is that my coat is made of wool (no killing involved) because my father was buying, being impatient, and I really needed a new coat.

---

OH an i am sure those animals weren't harvested for their wool right?!

And the fact that you really needed that coat went above your ethics of animla cruelty huh?

---

Why on earth is this discussion getting so nasty?

Re: Contraversial topic so be prepared...

---

Posted by sweetadeline

Judging by this logic, pretty much every single person in the world is some kind of hypocrite. Every person who claims to be a 'good Christian' and occasionally says 'Jesus Christ!' when someone cuts her off on the expressway is taking the lord's name in vain, and is therefore a hypocrite. Every doctor who has a few glasses of wine with dinner is a hypocrite. Every dentist who decides to skip flossing once in a while is a hypocrite -- dentists are constantly telling US to floss every day, so they should have to floss every day, right?

My point is this: humans are not perfect. No one has perfect, unassailable credibility. So maybe... just maybe... there's a certain amount of pointlessness to judging other people as hypocrites.

Is judging other people as hypocrites an important and useful thing to do? If so, why? I'm not asking this question to be obnoxious. This is a serious question. For example, I can envision certain circumstances where looking for serious instances of hypocrisy might be important -- when deciding which candidate one would prefer to support with a vote, for instance. Then again, every candidate is a hypocrite in one way or another, so...

---

Errr where do i start...No humans are not perfect and i never thought anyone was...BUT i think that i also don't go around saying how bad people are for saying jesus christ because i am not a perfect catholic.. I don't sit their and give an arguements about how horrible cruel aniimals are treated for milk and then were their skin either...

Re: Contraversial topic so be prepared...

---

Posted by sweetadeline

---

Posted by oct.2004bride

---

Posted by Darcy

The worst is that my coat is made of wool (no killing involved) because my father was buying, being impatient, and I really needed a new coat.

---

OH an i am sure those animals weren't harvested for their wool right?!

And the fact that you really needed that coat went above your ethics of animla cruelty huh?

---

Why on earth is this discussion getting so nasty?

---

I am not getting nasty

Re: Contraversial topic so be prepared...

if the words i have choosen come arcoss mean i apologize
I just don't understand how someone can talk about the cruelty of harvesting animals and how bad they are treated for milk or cheese...when they wear the skins of animals!!
I just don't get that?

Re: Contraversial topic so be prepared...

---

Posted by oct.2004bride


Errr where do i start...No humans are not perfect and i never thought anyone was...BUT i think that i also don't go around saying how bad people are for saying jesus christ because i am not a perfect catholic.. I don't sit their and give an arguements about how horrible cruel aniimals are treated for milk and then were their skin either...

---

No one on here EVER said they were perfect or better than someone else, and we are not 'sitting here giving arguments about how horrible and cruel animals are treated for milk'. Someone ASKED, so we answered.

Re: Contraversial topic so be prepared...

I ASKED and yes i was answered but in that answer i was told how horrible cows are treated for their milk right?

So don't you think the same animals are treated horribly for their skin?

This thread was started because some people could not understand how a veggie of vegan would not eat meat due to animal cruelty but yet wear their skin!
And the only answer i saw was...i am not perfect

Re: Contraversial topic so be prepared...

---

Posted by oct.2004bride

if the words i have choosen come arcoss mean i apologize
I just don't understand how someone can talk about the cruelty of harvesting animals and how bad they are treated for milk or cheese...when they wear the skins of animals!!
I just don't get that?

---

Oh jeez, we have been explaining that, haven't you read this thread?

No one is perfect and not everyone is going to be an exact replica of what you think a perfect vegetarian/vegan should be. Sometimes people wear leather because years ago when they weren't vegetarian they bought a pair of leather shoes and instead of throwing them out, they wear them. And even if they do buy them now, who has the right to judge them? They are 'minimizing suffering' by not eating meat...no one is perfect.

Re: Contraversial topic so be prepared...

---

Posted by oct.2004bride

I ASKED and yes i was answered but in that answer i was told how horrible cows are treated for their milk right?

So don't you think the same animals are treated horribly for their skin?

This thread was started because some people could not understand how a veggie of vegan would not eat meat due to animal cruelty but yet wear their skin!
And the only answer i saw was...i am not perfect

---

Are you perfect?

Re: Contraversial topic so be prepared...

---

Posted by Brandalina

---

Posted by oct.2004bride

if the words i have choosen come arcoss mean i apologize
I just don't understand how someone can talk about the cruelty of harvesting animals and how bad they are treated for milk or cheese...when they wear the skins of animals!!
I just don't get that?

---

Oh jeez, we have been explaining that, haven't you read this thread?

No one is perfect and not everyone is going to be an exact replica of what you think a perfect vegetarian/vegan should be. Sometimes people wear leather because years ago when they weren't vegetarian they bought a pair of leather shoes and instead of throwing them out, they wear them. And even if they do buy them now, who has the right to judge them? They are 'minimizing suffering' by not eating meat...no one is perfect.

---

I read this thread...
I UNDERSTAND NOBODY IS PERFECT...Did you not read what i wrote...

I am just seeing people say how horrible animals are treated for such and such things..I didn't know that cows were horribly treated for their milk until someone TOLD ME...

But then if you can't drink milk why do you wear leather (to those who do?)