Contraversial topic so be prepared...

disclaimer
"I was reading through the veggie wedding post and I noticed that a few people said they didn't eat meat for moral reasons. Well, it has been really bothering me. People often throw morality around like its nothing, so when it comes to moral issues I am very, very sceptical of people. It's not because I think I am better or smarter than anyone else. It's because I like to get to the nitty gritty of people and it's just something that I do. So please do not take this as a personal attack, I am not singling out anyone specifically. "

Ok...those of you who are vegetarians for moral reason, mainly because you don't want to see innocent animals die, I need to ask you something.

Do you own leather shoes, sneakers, purses, or jackets? (Leather is something that requires the harvester to kill the animal it comes from.) And if so, do you feel personal conflict in that fact?

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my brothers ex girlfriend was a vegeterian for moral reasons and would make my family, brother included feel terrible everytime we ate meat in front of her. she would sent us pamphlets on what they do to animals when there slattered etc. one day i just couldnt take it anyone i respect everyones views and thoughts but i wasnt going to have her try and cram her views down my throat any longer. she was soo offended she stormed out stamping her LEATHER boot clad feet on the floor of the dining room grabbing her SUEDE coach bag and LEATHER coat lol.

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All of the strict vegetarians I know avoid leather and all animal-based products. That includes things like Altoid mints, which are made with gelatin. It can be VERY difficult to avoid leather when buying shoes and such, and these people really have to invest time and energy when they do simple shopping tasks.

And, for some reason that I will never fully understand, many these strict vegetarians get teased, taunted, and accused of being hypocrites. Just goes to show that folks who are different are still often mistreated or maligned in our society. People feel threatened when someone doesn't share their value system, I guess. Weird, since this country is supposedly based on freedom to be yourself and the like.

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Posted by sweetadeline

All of the strict vegetarians I know avoid leather and all animal-based products. That includes things like Altoid mints, which are made with gelatin. It can be VERY difficult to avoid leather when buying shoes and such, and these people really have to invest time and energy when they do simple shopping tasks.

And, for some reason that I will never fully understand, many these strict vegetarians get teased, taunted, and accused of being hypocrites. Just goes to show that folks who are different are still often mistreated or maligned in our society. People feel threatened when someone doesn't share their value system, I guess. Weird, since this country is supposedly based on freedom to be yourself and the like.

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Posted by september2004

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Posted by sweetadeline

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agree... as long as they don't try to impose their beliefs on me, who am i to judge?

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Posted by nov.bride

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Posted by september2004

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Posted by sweetadeline

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agree... as long as they don't try to impose their beliefs on me, who am i to judge?

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I asgree witht the above quote-
I applaud people who have the convictions to go out of thier way to adhere to this lifestyle based upon thier beliefs.
( as long as they don't wrong me for not doing the same)

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Posted by sweetadeline

All of the strict vegetarians I know avoid leather and all animal-based products. That includes things like Altoid mints, which are made with gelatin. It can be VERY difficult to avoid leather when buying shoes and such, and these people really have to invest time and energy when they do simple shopping tasks.

And, for some reason that I will never fully understand, many these strict vegetarians get teased, taunted, and accused of being hypocrites. Just goes to show that folks who are different are still often mistreated or maligned in our society. People feel threatened when someone doesn't share their value system, I guess. Weird, since this country is supposedly based on freedom to be yourself and the like.

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I was a vegetarian for two years, but I never criticized others. To answer your question, yes I wore leather jackets and leather shoes. I just didn't like to eat the animals. Anyways, it all went down the toilet at BJ's one day when I was absolutely starving and the only thing available was a hot dog!! I still don't eat veal to this day and I avoid gelatin.

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This is definitely a controversial topic but it is reality.

I am not a vegan but I am all for animal rights in a realistic manner. I beleive that animals were put on this earth to be eaten but i do not agree in INHUMANE animal testing or the waste of animals for food...meaning we really should revert back to days when animals were killed based on need. This way there would be less waste.

I do applaud people who try to be vegan, but not those who put animals on a higher pedastal than humans.

There is no true way of being 100% vegan, I believe that to be a myth. Somehow there will be animal products or by products that people come in contact with...why..alot of labels on products have been proven to be misleading..same with people paying for organic food then finding out it truely was not.

All I ask of my vegan friends is not to push their beliefs on me as I choose not to eat a juicy beef burger in their presence..we have respect for one another and thats the most important thing.

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Not a vegetarian here, but in college, I lived with one...and I know how difficult her life was, trying to find products with out animal traces in them....shopping for hand lotion is something that will always stand out in my mind....i go and buy the cheapest one, she went and would have to ready ever singel lable to figure out which she could use.....but she didn't complain about it ever.
another set of friends that i have are vegetarian/vegan - they were recently married and created a website, where they included a statement about where they were registered, and requested that if people bought them gifts not on the registry, to aviod any animal products, leather, ivory, etc......
it's a pretty difficult lifestyle, and I admire anyone who can do it!

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No I do not. I also try to buy products (hygine products) that are not tested on animals and many times the company is environmentaly consious. I also don't eat any dairy. This includes anything that contains D3, whey, milk, eggs... any thing that is derived from animal. I don't eat anything with Gelitan (horse or pig hoofs and ligamints) such as jello, skittals, mentos, altoids. The worst is that my coat is made of wool (no killing involved) because my father was buying, being impatient, and I really needed a new coat.

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I would also like to add that it is not as difficult as it all seems. The worst is food you have never bought before, or going out to eat. But once you get the nack of it, once you have found you favorite products and stores, even payless, kmart, New Balance have/make non leather shoes, your golden. Especially on LI. 3 Trader Joes and evertime I am there I purches things I like to eat and hygine products. Not to say there aren't things here I can get.
It takes a considerable amount of drive to reach the point. You do have to do your research. But I have been doing it for almost 3 years vegan, almost 6 years veggitarian, and it is pretty easy now.
Hey, my reception hall is even making me a vegan cake and they are going way out of their way to help me out!

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I think you will be hard-pressed to find a vegetarian who does it for moral reasons who also uses leather products... some, true, but few and far between... since we became veggie, FH and I don't buy any leather products, avoid gelatins, lotions, etc... that use animal products or test on animals (I HIGHLY reccomend Burt's Bees products!)... did I throw out everything I own that is leather once I became veggie? Not yet... because what's done is done at this point...but, you won't catch me buying anything with leather ever since I did become veggie... my brother, who is vegan, never buys anything with leather, but my other brother, who is a vegetarian for health, not moral reasons, buys everything leather... matron, who is the model vegan, has the most amazing non-leather shoe collection I've ever seen!

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And, to add, like Darcy, when we gave up meat, we also gave up milk products (which wasn't too hard for me considering I'm lactose intolerant ... and soy milk is really yummy!)... and only eat free-range eggs... so, yes, we try to follow through as far as possible with our convictions

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I would like to appaud those who don't use any animal derived products and are vegetarian. I have met many people who have claimed to be vegetarians for moral reasons and still wore leather coats, shoes, etc. I didn't understand it.

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my vegetarian family does not wear or purchase any leather products, nor do they buy anything tested on animals....my one aunt will not even wear wool b/c of how they shear the sheep.

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i am a vegatarian, but no very strict and i dont know if i really do it for "moral" beliefs. i do feel bad eating an animal, but i dont think its immoral. i also think its really gross to eat an animal.

just thought i would add in my two cents

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What do you vegitarians think about charity orginazations like the MDA?

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ok i have to add a bit in here - i use to be vegetarian - it was a personal choice and i didnt push how i felt about it on anyone - until i became ill and trying to remain on a vegetarian diet became very difficult with all the medication i took which of course contains geletin - i moved away from it over a few years and when i met fh who is allergic to most vegetables around i realized i would have to add meats back into the diet so that he would have something to eat -
i wasnt attacking when i posted on the other thread - i do respect people who do it because it isnt always easy to find things to eat on the menu. stand by your convictions - just try to understand and respect those who dont.
that is all i am going to add now -

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Posted by dm24angel

What do you vegitarians think about charity orginazations like the MDA?

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Just to go off a little on this subject, but relative, as far as hypocrites go, I also find it funny, when some couples feel that they shouldn't live together before marriage because they are "old fashioned", yet they still have pre-marital sex...

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Posted by bxgell2

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Posted by dm24angel

What do you vegitarians think about charity orginazations like the MDA?

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Excuse my ignorance (I'm studying for the bar, so what may be obvious to everyone else, will completely elude me at this point)... but what is the MDA?

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Message edited 7/3/2004 10:54:16 PM.

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QUESTION FOR THE VEGANS:

why no milk or cheese...cows and goats and human use this to nurish their own...(at least the milk). So what is the big deal that we drink it to nourish humans?

And what about the important vitamins gotten from the food products you are not eating which you are lacking? DO you take extra vitamin pills?

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i'm a vegetarian who wears leather shoes...sue me. okay, i will say that there is a HUGE difference in leather and plastic shoes and as a person who is on my feet all day, i need my feet to feel as best as possible. anyway, call me a hypocrite, whatever, i know who i am. i have never tried to impose vegetarianism on anyone else, unlike people who try to tell me i'm wrong in what i'm doing or make bets with me. i do it b/c i love animals and feel that animal protein is not as healthy as believed. i've given up trying to win an argument...just let me be a veggie who wears leather shoes and call it a day.

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I wrote this insanely long post and then it failed to ppst (this has been happening a LOT lately..grrr_ I talked about how I felt about all of this...I'm going to give you the sparknotes version.

1) I agree with cocoa. My friend wrote a song called "leather wearing vegetarian" which cracked me up. It was something like "Call me a hypocrote but I don't care what you say or do. I said I don't eat meat and I don't eat my shoe."

2) I get really annoyed when people ask me why I'm a vegetarian. A lot of times people are pretty hostile about it. It's very weird. There's no reason they should be. It doesn't hurt anyone. I dont know why it bothers people so much.

3) I feel like what I eat is my personal choice, and as long as I don't try to push it on others as a lifestyle (one meal does not constitute a lifestyle), then I don't feel that my beliefs should be scrutinized. If I choose not to serve meat, that's my prerogative, completely. Some people won't allow smoking in their homes because they're asthmatic, or they won't serve liquor for various reasons. they're not pushing anything on anyone at all, they're just living their own lifestyle and when you're in someone's home or at a party they throw, you're in their lifestyle for those few hours. It doesn't mean anyone's pushing anything on you... I feel that as long as I don't try to push anything on anyone, they have no right to call me a hypocrite.

4) I don't eat animals. I eat dairy, eggs and fish occasionally. I'm not claiming to be anything I'm not. I can specify everytime I say I'm a vegatarian I'm a "lacto ovo peco vegetarian" but that's too many words and "vegetarian" is just easier to say. I have one pair of shoes that may or may not be leather, I'm not sure. My car seats, yes, are elather. Call me a hypocrite, but I did my homework and found out that processing the leather causes a lot more dmage to the environment than killing cows. Do I think it's gross, yes.

5) Morality. You can define that word in many different ways. maybe we're not using it in the same way, which is ok. I don't know of a better word. I consider it moral because it's something I feel is right for my in my heart. On a spiritual level, I don't think people were meant to eat animals. Do I think other people who eat meat are being "immoral"? No way. I just think it's a total personal choice. For me, I don't feel like eating meat. At this point I mainly think it's gross and I don't feel like killing animals.

I get a lot of ciriticism for eating fish milk and eggs. If it were feasable at this point in my life to be vegan, I would be. You cna believe i the ten commandments wholeheartedly and then only follow nine of them. No one's perfect. Are you a hypocrite for only following 9? Only if you tell everyone else they must follow all ten.

6) On dairy: I think milk IS gross. I mean, think about it. it's meant to nourish young cows, it's not really formulalted for humans, but also, would you drink another woman's breast milk? Of course not. Cow milk is the same thing. We're just conditioned not to think about it that way. It's funny, a lot of people are grossed out by breast milk, but that's a whole lot more natural to be drinking than milk from a cow. Do I care if other people drink milk or not? Nope.

About proseletizing. i wish more peopel were vegetarians, but I never try to convert anyone. I don't even think of it. I think if I said "you can;t eat meat, it's so wrong" you could say, wait...your car seats are leather..., but I don't say that to anyone. I don't claim to be perfect. I don't claim to be anything I'm not, so I don't really feel like I deserve, in general, to be called a hypocrite.